[CrespoBlows]

Originally Posted by example1

These are all issues topics. I think we should also vote on issues. I think its fine if someone doesn't like obama because of his policy stances, and I have no doubt that you judge him accordingly.

That's why I get a bit miffed at the stuff about him being muslim, or about what his wife says about the first time she's been REALLY proud of her country, or about what his pastor says 5 days after 9/11.

It's all clap trap intended to take the issues off the table and to make people vote based on a visceral reaction based on someone's background, associations etc.,

Just as I don't assume that McCain is a homophobic bigot when Pastors Hagee and Parsley shake his hand, calling him a good conservative and then back him unequovically, I don't believe Obama is an ignorant racist for ONLY denouncing and repudiating the comments made by his now-retired and never-seen-on-the-campaign-trail preacher.

We've been over the policy differences and will agree to disagree. You're all about individualism and strong national defense and that's fine. I just wonder what strong national defense has gotten us? Preemptive attacks got us a leader without WMDs and then 12b a month in Iraq. Is that the individualism and low-federal spending you were looking for?

Given that McCain has "misstated" multiple times that Iran is training Al Qaeda--despite the fact that this isn't true and he has corrected himself--and given that he has been supporting a war with Iraq even long before 9/11 because he was absolutely sure that Saddam had enough biological weapons to destroy the world multiple times over, I don't have as much faith in his judgement as you do.

That said, it's a tough job and one where sometimes judgement is the best--and only--tool one has at their disposal.

PS: I wouldn't call it politically convenient for Obama to have been against the war when he ran for Senate in 2002. Given that most of the country supported it... just sayin'.

Otherwise, yeah, if you don't want to get into a spitting match about whose reverand or ardent supporter or sought after supporter said what, then let's stick to the issues. Otherwise, it is perfectly legitimate to show that McCain--and many consesrvatives in general--regularly court out the reactionary anti-islam, anti-gay, anti-evolution crowd. It's part of their "base".

I know you're not most of these things, but you have to admit that conservatives seek them out like the liberals seek out fringe left-leaning groups with some radical ideas.

And yes, the pencil comment was in good fun, but it wasn't respectful. You have a sharp tongue ORS (or finger tips??) and sometimes you--like myself--can come off as being condecending when you don't mean to. I still think you're a good guy, even if we disagree on just about any non-baseball related issue under the sun.

Thanks for sticking through this discussion all the way!

Originally Posted by Crespo Blows

So typical white person = unremarkable white person?