PDA

View Full Version : Gammons: Zito to Sox?



dirtdogman5
05-02-2004, 05:02 PM
This is from bostondirtdogs.com (http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/)

5.2.04: Gammons excerpts on WEEI The Baseball Show with Neumy, McAdam, Buckley: Pedro’s stream of consciousness wasn’t well thought out. If you’re worried about the fans and love Boston, you can play for $13M a year... some people sign under market, Curt Schilling coming here, if you really want to take the AAV (average annual value) side of it. Playing in a sold out park, having a team competitive in probably the most rabid baseball town in America, does mean something. Only a finite amount of money that the Red Sox can spend. They can’t spend with Yankees. They've done an astounding job raising revenue from $160M – 230M. But the Yankees have $340M. The Red Sox have $380M in debt service. George Steinbrenner paid $10M back in the '70s. So they (Sox) can’t play it that way. There's only so much money for each player.


It's unfair to call them liars. He might not agree with what they offer. But he hasn’t been lied to at all. They’re (Red Sox brass) trying to find a way. His shoulder is not likely to be insurable, so the Red Sox couldn’t collect if he went on the disabled list for a year. The way that was said (by Pedro) was wrong.


John Henry, Larry Lucchino, and Theo Epstein sat down with all people in the organization to make sure not to say anything negative about this guy. It was a pretty strong order. I think the shots he took at them were a little bit unfair. But part of what makes Pedro so good is to run off like this.


Buck: How much of this is a 72 hour brushfire or is it a season-long black cloud?


PG: Derek Lowe and Jason Varitek are not affected by this. Or Ortiz, and I think they’ll get him done. The cloud is with Nomar and Pedro, but they're both so driven to succeed, they’ll perform... They haven’t bled Red Sox blue for a couple of years now. Still, a very close team. And it's not from star players but from the second tier (read: dirt dogs). Ortiz, Varitek, Millar, they drive the engine, and create this team's personality.


I was amazed to see how much Pedro was missing the glove last night. It’s troublesome, but it’s one game... At same time, what level (salary to pay Pedro)? He wants an AAV higher than Kevin Brown, but what can you live on? $13.5M two years, plus options, depending on health. After two more years, he'll have made $117M with the Red Sox. It’s not the dollars (the players' care about), it’s you want more than this other person. If they gave each one what it requires to sign them right now, to me, they’d be insane.


They’re gonna stick to what they believe each player is worth… Scott Boras and Lowe at 4x12, 4X10 for Varitek, is not going to get done right now. ...I don’t know if the Nomar thing is going to get reopened or not. There's a lot of bitterness there. If they sign Ortiz, it's not going to infuriate Jason Varitek.


I think Oakland will trade Barry Zito and he could wind up here because of the relationship between the GMs. (Buck: Cape league coach Joe Walsh over at Hartford raves about him every chance he gets). ...Andy Dominque has gotten Oakland A’s written all over him... Zito would be great here. Tall lefty, Bruce Hurst did well here. But we’re a long way from there.

peskypole
05-02-2004, 05:04 PM
If we believe everything on Bostondirdogs.com, it would be dumb, but if this rumor has any validity, that would be cool.

Zenny
05-02-2004, 06:09 PM
4X12 for Lowe and 4X10 for Varitek!! WTF is Scott Boras smoking! Those numbers are rediculous, they are both as good as gone.

yeszir
05-02-2004, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by Zenny@May 2 2004, 07:09 PM
4X12 for Lowe and 4X10 for Varitek!! WTF is Scott Boras smoking! Those numbers are rediculous, they are both as good as gone.
Scott Boras is the devil. Thats what he was thinking. In between torturing children and running old ladies over with a golf cart, he spat those numbers out of his head.

rsoxfan1489
05-02-2004, 07:33 PM
Boras must have said those numbers when the interviewers caught him beating an old lady to death with her cane and probably had nothing better. I think lowe should get about 4x10, but lowe is worth maybe 5x9 or 4x10 as well depending on how good he pitches this year. So it's possible they're not that far off,

rsoxfan1489
05-02-2004, 07:35 PM
p.s. Pedro, if I hear you complain once more about being offered 15.5 million in stead of 15.6 million especially in the middle of a good year, I'm going to suggest that we spread as much rumors about his shoulder and well being as possible and destroy any open market integrity he has.

TheFens
05-03-2004, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by rsoxfan1489@May 2 2004, 08:35 PM
p.s. Pedro, if I hear you complain once more about being offered 15.5 million in stead of 15.6 million especially in the middle of a good year, I'm going to suggest that we spread as much rumors about his shoulder and well being as possible and destroy any open market integrity he has.
Yea!

Ps: I hear pedro's shoulder is acting up!

CrespoBlows
05-07-2004, 01:35 PM
A trade for Zito, would likely demand: Kevin Youkillis, Andy Domique, and some pitcher we know nothing of. Would you guys rather have Zito, or save the money to resign Pedro and other FA"S

yawkeyway
05-07-2004, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by CrespoBlows@May 7 2004, 01:35 PM
A trade for Zito, would likely demand: Kevin Youkillis, Andy Domique, and some pitcher we know nothing of. Would you guys rather have Zito, or save the money to resign Pedro and other FA"S
I wouldn't want to give up Youki for Zito. Better to hang on to Pedro and let someone else walk.

NomarMannyOrtizzle
05-08-2004, 09:43 PM
i would give up Youkilis and andy dominique for Zito in a heartbeat. Zito is just that good.

DuffyCliff
05-08-2004, 10:20 PM
Originally posted by rsoxfan1489@May 2 2004, 07:35 PM
p.s. Pedro, if I hear you complain once more about being offered 15.5 million in stead of 15.6 million especially in the middle of a good year, I'm going to suggest that we spread as much rumors about his shoulder and well being as possible and destroy any open market integrity he has.
Isn't going to hurt him much when he leads the league in ERA again. :lol:

I guess it is going to take Pedro to move to Toronto win 2 more Cy's, move to New York win another Cy and 2 World Series before the Red Sox realize who they are letting get away.

Pedro isn't as physically fit as Clemens? That's ok, he's SMARTER.

Of course he isn't the same guy... the "same guy" was the most dominant pitcher in the history of baseball compared to his peers. Pedro is built like a bat boy, did you really think he'd be throwing 98 mph forever? The fact that he even could in the first place for all those years is a testament to his incredible talent. Extra points, Pedro.

C'mon Theo... you really have to choose between Pedro and Lowe? Yikes.

What does Lowe offer that makes him so much better than Pedro to sign?

"Wins?"

Yeah, 7-8 runs a game doesn't assist there. What happens when he doesn't get it and he's the same average pitcher? :rolleyes:

"ERA?"

Next.

"Innings?"

Well, last season Lowe pitched 203 innings to Pedro's 187. The difference between their durability and effectiveness was 16 innings of 30.94 ERA pitching.

"He's younger."

By a year.

"Pedro is a distraction... look what happened to the team after he came out and spoke."

Yeah, all the hitters must have cared so much about what Pedro said about his contract talks that it just sucked their talent right away and got them into the horrible slump they'd been in since the YANKEE SERIES.

Don't get me wrong, I like D-Lowe plenty...I hope he throws a shutout tomorrow, but when it comes to paying D-Lowe 12 M or Pedro 15, it's a fairly easy decision. If Lowe pitches like it is 2002, then I'd think about it. So far he has pitched more than 7 innings in a start just once, has allowed 40 hits in 26.2 innings, has 12 K's to 11 BB's and is flirting with an ERA around 4.75.

As for Zito, I think he's drastically overrated. He was great in 2002, but Pedro and Lowe both deserved the Cy before him. Last year his ERA rose by almost half a run. So far this season he has a 6.17 ERA in 35 IP.

Right now nothing seems to make sense and the numbers are indeed inflated (Pedro included). It would make a lot more sense to look in July...even more to look at the end of the season. However, this is where we are right now.

yeszir
05-09-2004, 07:37 AM
Yup. Everything will be much much clearer in July, when the numbers are about right and everyone settles into a grove. Then we can see exactly what this team needs (the presence of Trot and Nomar won't hurt either).

And I dont think anyone is arguing that Lowe is more valuable/worth it than Pedro is, I think people are just pissed off about his attitude. I'd rather have attitude and a 2.5 ERA than no attitude and a 4.0 ERA. But maybe that's just me. :rolleyes:

DuffyCliff
05-09-2004, 04:24 PM
Unfortunately, and I am serious, today was an excellent example of my point about D-Lowe.

The Run Support wasn't there and Lowe was rather average. His ERA is now at 5.01.

7 innings of 1-run Pedro ball would sure be nice right now wouldn't it?

Right now you'd either have to have a true hatred for Pedro or just be out of your mind to say that signing D-Lowe would be a better option. The fact that Boras is his agent makes things even worse. Cuza (Pedro's agent) seems like a much better man to do business with and has stayed optimistic about Pedro staying with Boston ever since this whole contract thing started heating up in 2003 ST.

I don't really care about "attitude" or any of that crap, just pitch. I don't see how people can use "Clubhouse Chemistry" as an argument when they really have no clue what goes on in the Sox Clubhouse. That "argument" has absolutely no merit. I haven't heard anyone complain about Pedro, but I've sure heard players defending him. Not just Manny either... when Pedro's velocity/skills were in question, who stood up and said he'd be the Man when the bell rang - Why, it was Jason Varitek.

TheFens
05-09-2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by DuffyCliff@May 9 2004, 05:24 PM
I don't really care about "attitude" or any of that crap, just pitch. I don't see how people can use "Clubhouse Chemistry" as an argument when they really have no clue what goes on in the Sox Clubhouse. That "argument" has absolutely no merit. I haven't heard anyone complain about Pedro, but I've sure heard players defending him. Not just Manny either... when Pedro's velocity/skills were in question, who stood up and said he'd be the Man when the bell rang - Why, it was Jason Varitek.
Right. The whole "Pedro is dragging the team down" attitude is getting blown out of proportion. Poin is, we DON'T know what goes on in the clubhouse, we never will. Nor do we know what goes on in Pedro's mind. I know this seems like a complete reversal of what I said earlier on in the thread, but I dont believe he messes the team up. He messes the fans up, sure. He complains a lot, and its annoying, but I dont that affects whether or not Bill Mueller will go 4-5 or 0-5 in tomorrow's game.

And as far as Zito goes, for the time being I'd rather have Pedro on the team.

Tek04
05-10-2004, 06:44 AM
Its pretty sad when we are complaining about pitching...we have the best pitching staff in the majors, as well as the best bullpen in the major, both major improvements from last year...

We are slacking on offensive mainly because we don't have trot or nomar yet, but bellhorne and reese are both improving, offensively, as the season goes on.

If we lose pedro, i wont be too worried...we will find someone else to take his place and still have a dominant pitching staff (assuming we keep everyone except pedro)

Right now all I care about is this season, i dont care about contracts and I dont care about next season, because this season is far from over, and last time i checked, we still have all the same players that we had in the beginning of the year, so no need to worry about pedro and lowe now, lets worry about that after we win the world series this year.

Gertie
05-17-2004, 04:25 PM
Zito would make me happy, IF he can get it together and start putting out some quality innings. I'm kind of scared of him right now, since he's declined each of hte last two years (or was it just last year? Either way...).