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View Full Version : Mets sign CF Carlos Beltran



Noah
01-09-2005, 09:09 AM
http://nymfans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=301

Who better to report it than your residential Mets fan? ;)

Gertie
01-09-2005, 11:27 AM
According to ESPN.com, the deal is almost done, but not yet. They're about 4 or 5 million apart. The deal will probably be done by later today. I have to say, though, that the Mets are going out and spending a whole lot of money this offseason. All you Mets fans better hope something finally comes of it...

I LOVE WOMENS VOLLEYBALL
01-09-2005, 12:34 PM
ya i hear theyr still goin for delgado even tho they signed beltran and pedro... this is on pace to be the most unenglish lockeroom ever

Zenny
01-09-2005, 12:36 PM
ya i hear theyr still goin for delgado even tho they signed beltran and pedro... this is on pace to be the most unenglish lockeroom ever
This post is pretty "unenglish" too. :lol:

Gertie
01-09-2005, 12:36 PM
Does anyone else find it ironic that he used the term unenglish?

EDIT: Damn, Zenny beat me to it.

stevece80
01-09-2005, 12:44 PM
Does anyone else find it amazing that the Yankees didn't sign Beltran? It was an absolute no-brainer on their part. I'm absolutely loving the thought of Bernie, already on a sharp decline, playing center full-time. For some reason, I'm thinking Steinbrenner is waiting off a year to sign Juan Pierre, or trade for Darin Erstad, as he has a bizzarre fascination with collecting artifacts from playoff series he's lost. When money isn't too much of an issue, Pierre is an okay consolation prize, but he's not Carlos Friggin' Beltran. With Bernie's long-term deal coming off the books after this season, the salary thing is even less of an issue starting in 2006.

I LOVE WOMENS VOLLEYBALL
01-09-2005, 01:35 PM
fuck all of u its called internet language where u abrev. everything so u don't have to type as much

stevece80
01-09-2005, 01:38 PM
fuck u its calld spanish they spk it cuz they don spee engliz.

Noah
01-09-2005, 07:14 PM
Lets. Go. Mets.

DOrtiz4prez
01-09-2005, 07:38 PM
Do you guys think teams should start to be scared of the Mets?

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 07:44 PM
Does anyone else find it amazing that the Yankees didn't sign Beltran? It was an absolute no-brainer on their part. I'm absolutely loving the thought of Bernie, already on a sharp decline, playing center full-time. For some reason, I'm thinking Steinbrenner is waiting off a year to sign Juan Pierre, or trade for Darin Erstad, as he has a bizzarre fascination with collecting artifacts from playoff series he's lost. When money isn't too much of an issue, Pierre is an okay consolation prize, but he's not Carlos Friggin' Beltran. With Bernie's long-term deal coming off the books after this season, the salary thing is even less of an issue starting in 2006.

I think Steinbrenner's had enough spending for a year, I believe Cashman convinced this team came 3 outs away from a sweep w/o the Big Unit, Pavano, or Wright. It also sets the door open for the Yanks to go get Juan Pierre next year, though I hope we get him

BoSox Rule
01-09-2005, 07:46 PM
though I hope we get him
I'd much rather re-sign Damon.

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 07:48 PM
Pierre will come much, much cheaper than Damon

BoSox Rule
01-09-2005, 07:53 PM
Juan Pierre is easily going to get $6-7 million, especialy using his win share net value. (http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/statpages/ws_value)

Damon wouldn't be asking for much more.

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 08:01 PM
Jesus Christ what is it with you and fucking made up stat shit. No agent used that, no one would dare use that. Pierre is a leadoff hitter who, if lucky will hit 3 HR. If Pierre gets 6 million Damon would want 10 million, because he hit 20 HR out of the leadoff spot. Leadoff hitters don't make no where near 6 million. Pierre will probably get 3-4 million dollars, Damon probably 8-10.

BoSox Rule
01-09-2005, 08:02 PM
Bench players make that much.

Exaggeration, but Pierre will probably get a lot more than 3 million. He's going to make $3.4 million this year, and he's still arbitration eligible.

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 08:05 PM
Bench players don't make 3 million, they make about 300,000 to 1.5 million

When are you stat hounds going to learn that Moneyball doesn't work?

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 08:07 PM
If Juan Pierre gets 6-7 million he just shot up the value of any player who hits about .300, and hits more HR than he does

BoSox Rule
01-09-2005, 08:12 PM
When are you stat hounds going to learn that Moneyball doesn't work?
When are you going to learn that you have no idea what you're talking about?

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 08:13 PM
Actually I do, prove to me a moneyball team that has actually won it all

BoSox Rule
01-09-2005, 08:17 PM
2003 Marlins
2002 Angels

Of course Moneyball works. The A's prove that year after year after year after year.

BoSox Rule
01-09-2005, 08:21 PM
If Juan Pierre gets 6-7 million he just shot up the value of any player who hits about .300, and hits more HR than he does
I think its a little too late for that.

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 08:21 PM
Billy Beane's famous "moneyball" draft is working really well for them isn't it?

Don't give me that bullshit about Swisher, because the Mets were going to take him before, had the Brewers taked Kazmir (they ultimately took Fielder) Scouts were actually quite high on Swisher

Beane's best postion player is a HS 3B named Eric Chavez

The rest of the moneyball draft is fringe prospects status at best (besides Blanton he's okay)

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 08:23 PM
2003 Marlins
2002 Angels

Of course Moneyball works. The A's prove that year after year after year after year.

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT

The Marlins and Angels are the exact OPPOSITE of the A's. There scrappy players, who play for the sac bunt, sac fly. The Angels lead the league in sac bunts in 2002 when they won.

Answer these ?

Did the A's make the playoffs last year? Are the Blue Jays powerhouses now? Paul Podesta is a good GM too right?

BoSox Rule
01-09-2005, 08:26 PM
Did the A's make the playoffs last year? Are the Blue Jays powerhouses now? Paul Podesta is a good GM too right?
They missed the playoffs by one game.

He just got rid of his two best pitchers, and made his team better. I'd say that's fairly decent. The A's are going to win the West for years to come.

stevece80
01-09-2005, 08:26 PM
"Moneyball" team to win it? Geez, besides the 2004 Red Sox, I can't think of any.

BoSox Rule
01-09-2005, 08:26 PM
The Marlins and Angels are the exact OPPOSITE of the A's. There scrappy players, who play for the sac bunt, sac fly. The Angels lead the league in sac bunts in 2002 when they won.
I was just playing down to the crowd.

Chitalian Stallion
01-09-2005, 08:26 PM
I dont think many peeps will be scared at the begining of the season but their pitching staff could be pretty damn good. pedro might repeat last year's performance and zambrano, benson and glavine back him up.

ahhchon
01-09-2005, 08:26 PM
how does moneyball not work? billy bean puts out a competitive team every single year. you don't have to make the playoffs ot be competitive. they are a good team that had a few key players choke. zito sucked all year, mulder totally slumped after the ASB.

john

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 08:28 PM
You believe Beane's core of players are better than the Rangers core of players? The Angels? The A's are going to finish dead last this year in the AL West, Haren hasn't pitched a whole lot, Meyer hasn't thrown a single big league pitch. That catching prospect they got was good, but what ever happened to Billy Beane's "steal" Jeremy Brown? They won't win the AL West for the next 3 years, the Angels will definaltly be on top of them.

BoSox Rule
01-09-2005, 08:31 PM
You believe Beane's core of players are better than the Rangers core of players? The Angels? The A's are going to finish dead last this year in the AL West, Haren hasn't pitched a whole lot, Meyer hasn't thrown a single big league pitch. That catching prospect they got was good, but what ever happened to Billy Beane's "steal" Jeremy Brown? They won't win the AL West for the next 3 years, the Angels will definaltly be on top of them.

The A's are an unbelievably deep team. I'd put money on them winning the next two years out West. The Rangers have no pitching.

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 08:31 PM
how does moneyball not work? billy bean puts out a competitive team every single year. you don't have to make the playoffs ot be competitive. they are a good team that had a few key players choke. zito sucked all year, mulder totally slumped after the ASB.

john

Moneyball hasn't been able to go over the hump at all during the playoffs, if the A's had Dave Roberts, they wouldn't send him to steal. It's also why the Braves never won a lot even though they got to the playoffs. Waiting for a 3 HR doesn't work as well in the playoffs as it would in the regular season.

Also has anyone noticed that the A's can never beat the Red Sox or Yankees?

BoSox Rule
01-09-2005, 08:35 PM
Don't forget about Rich Harden.

CrespoBlows
01-09-2005, 08:37 PM
Honestly guys, how many of you would be satisfied if we had a A's type run? I would rather see my team win it all then finish one and done. That's all Beane has ever done, and that's all he'll ever do

elsrbueno
01-10-2005, 09:07 AM
How quickly we get off topic...

I have argued in past threads that the "moneyball" theory doesn't work, because teams like the A's, Braves, and Red Sox (pre 2004) had never won it all.

Waiting for the 3-run homer works in the regular season, because you can beat crappy pitchers that way. However, if you're players don't know how to MANUFACTURE runs, you won't go deep into the playoffs. I still believe that.

Anyway, RE: Beltran

Omar Minaya is trying to steal the NY spotlight from the Yankees. He's gone out and signed the best position player on the market, and the best pitcher. He's accomplished that goal, but will the Mets win in 2005?

They'll have a decent rotation with Martinez, Glavine, Benson, Zambrano and Trachsel, and will have a solid offensive team with Piazza, Beltran, and company....

I think they've still got questions:

Will Kaz Matsui make a successful transition to second base?
Will David Wright/Jose Reyes be productive enough to carry the expectations on them?
Who's playing first base?
Will Piazza stay productive and healthy as the full time catcher?

I am psyched that the Yankees didn't get Beltran, and that he signed with the Mets so the Red Sox don't have to face him.... but I'm still not convinced the Mets will be contenders in 2005

CrespoBlows
01-10-2005, 09:54 AM
"Moneyball" team to win it? Geez, besides the 2004 Red Sox, I can't think of any.

The Boston Red Sox are not a moneyball team, they may appear like it, but they sent 3 runners in one game in the ALCS and sent another 2 in game 5. Damon also attempted a bunt, Hell they even sent Ortiz. This is not a moneyball team.

BoSox Rule
01-10-2005, 01:18 PM
The Boston Red Sox are not a moneyball team, they may appear like it, but they sent 3 runners in one game in the ALCS and sent another 2 in game 5. Damon also attempted a bunt, Hell they even sent Ortiz. This is not a moneyball team.
Moneyball is signing the undervalued, unwanted player.

elsrbueno
01-10-2005, 01:49 PM
Moneyball is signing the undervalued, unwanted player.

There's more to it than that.

The moneyball theory, which has been attributed to Billy Beane, is developing offensive teams that work counts, take walks, etc. They value high OBP players and power hitters over speedsters/bunters. They build their offensive attack around getting runners on base, then getting them in by way of the "3-run homer."

Why do they call it "moneyball?" That I'm not positive because I haven't read the book, but based on what I HAVE heard/read, Billy (and a few other teams) believe that these types of players have been undervalued, and thus they can get these players for less money and still win baseball games.

element1151
01-10-2005, 02:12 PM
Why do they call it "moneyball?" That I'm not positive because I haven't read the book, but based on what I HAVE heard/read, Billy (and a few other teams) believe that these types of players have been undervalued, and thus they can get these players for less money and still win baseball games.

And because the A's don't have a big budget so the need to not spend a lot on money on players.

yeszir
01-10-2005, 02:16 PM
There is nothing I hate more than the entire moneyball craze. OPS has its merits, sure, and the whole Jamesian philosophy can work sometimes, but building a team solely around the moneyball philosphy is crap (just ask Billy Beane). Outs as precious commodities you must pretect at all costs makes no sense to me. We wouldn't have won anything last year had it not been for stolen bases, and I'd rather see Ortiz hacking away than trying to draw walks.

The sox aren't a moneyball team. They combine SOME aspects of SOME of the ideas present in the book and in Beane's head- but they make it work.

CrespoBlows
01-10-2005, 03:15 PM
There is nothing I hate more than the entire moneyball craze. OPS has its merits, sure, and the whole Jamesian philosophy can work sometimes, but building a team solely around the moneyball philosphy is crap (just ask Billy Beane). Outs as precious commodities you must pretect at all costs makes no sense to me. We wouldn't have won anything last year had it not been for stolen bases, and I'd rather see Ortiz hacking away than trying to draw walks.

The sox aren't a moneyball team. They combine SOME aspects of SOME of the ideas present in the book and in Beane's head- but they make it work.

Good Post yezsir

Oh and for the Red Sox finding "low cost" players or unwanted players

Other than Millar and Mueller we haven't done to much of that.

Moneyball teams often don't have elite closers they prefer to sell the closers like stocks. The Red Sox went out and got Foulke at 9 million per.

Walks mean nothing if you can't score them, if Juan Pierre has a high OBP that would be a good thing cause he can score, but if your boy Billy Beane's players get on base, chances are they aren't going to give you a scare on the base paths

BoSox Rule
01-10-2005, 03:20 PM
Other than Millar and Mueller we haven't done to much of that.

David Ortiz
Mark Bellhorn
Bill Mueller
Matt Mantei
Wade Miller
Kevin Millar
Bronson Arroyo

ahhchon
01-10-2005, 03:37 PM
[QUOTE=CrespoBlows]The A's are going to finish dead last this year in the AL West.
QUOTE]

how much would you like to bet that the a's are not going to finish dead last in the al west?

john

elsrbueno
01-10-2005, 03:46 PM
There is nothing I hate more than the entire moneyball craze. OPS has its merits, sure, and the whole Jamesian philosophy can work sometimes, but building a team solely around the moneyball philosphy is crap (just ask Billy Beane). Outs as precious commodities you must pretect at all costs makes no sense to me. We wouldn't have won anything last year had it not been for stolen bases, and I'd rather see Ortiz hacking away than trying to draw walks.

The sox aren't a moneyball team. They combine SOME aspects of SOME of the ideas present in the book and in Beane's head- but they make it work.

You hate the moneyball craze more than the Yankees?

Impressive.

I don't agree with it (obviously), but it's a good start. OBP is important because you need guys on base to score runs... but it doesn't work because if you can't move them over (either via sac bunt, stolen base, etc) when you need to it's sorta pointless.

Also, I don't think Beane would agree with you... since he still builds his team around the moneyball philosophy.

CrespoBlows
01-10-2005, 05:43 PM
[QUOTE=CrespoBlows]The A's are going to finish dead last this year in the AL West.
QUOTE]

how much would you like to bet that the a's are not going to finish dead last in the al west?

john

Call it a friendly bet, 5-10$ sound good?

CrespoBlows
01-10-2005, 05:45 PM
David Ortiz
Mark Bellhorn
Bill Mueller
Matt Mantei
Wade Miller
Kevin Millar
Bronson Arroyo

The way your pimping moneyball I'd expect superstars

Bellhorn is okay
Mueller I stated
Mantei hasn't done anything yet
Miller was a damn good pickup which I forget (why didn't your boy Billy Beane pick him up)
Millar I stated
Arroyo was a nice pickups as well

BoSox Rule
01-10-2005, 05:57 PM
Bellhorn is okay
.264/.373/.444/.817 with 17 HR, 82 RBI, and 88 walks in okay? For $490,000.

DOrtiz4prez
01-10-2005, 05:58 PM
There is a possibility of last place for them. Angels are great. Mariners now have a high-powered offense, Rangers are great, and A's have no pitching for this year not too mention any hitting. I think they will come in last.

BoSox Rule
01-10-2005, 06:02 PM
A's have no pitching for this year not too mention any hitting. I think they will come in last.
The Angels have a terrible rotation, the Rangers have a terrible rotation, and the Seattle Mariners are an average team.

Zito
Harden
Blanton
Meyer
Haren is a good rotation.

Kendall, Durazo, Hatteberg, Chavez, Crosby, Swisher, Byrnes, Crosby, and Ellis makes a pretty good lineup.

I'm very confident they will win the West.

soxonfox
01-10-2005, 06:06 PM
There is a possibility of last place for them. Angels are great. Mariners now have a high-powered offense, Rangers are great, and A's have no pitching for this year not too mention any hitting. I think they will come in last.



the mariners have 0 pitching and most of the team (with the exception of a few) is old. the'll come in last again.

1. A's
2. Angels
3. Rangers
4. Mariners

thats how it will turn out.

CrespoBlows
01-10-2005, 06:07 PM
The Angels have a terrible rotation, the Rangers have a terrible rotation, and the Seattle Mariners are an average team.

Zito
Harden
Blanton
Meyer
Haren is a good rotation.

Kendall, Durazo, Hatteberg, Chavez, Crosby, Swisher, Byrnes, Crosby, and Ellis makes a pretty good lineup.

I'm very confident they will win the West.

Haren hasn't started a full season, Meyer hasn't pitched ONE big league pitch, Blanton is young, and Zito totally collapsed last year, that isn't a good rotation.

Hatterberg's 37, Crosby batted .244, Ellis? Swisher? You compare AAA baseball to MLB baseball. Curt Schilling is harder to hit then Felix Hernadez is

CrespoBlows
01-10-2005, 06:09 PM
the mariners have 0 pitching and most of the team (with the exception of a few) is old. the'll come in last again.

1. A's
2. Angels
3. Rangers
4. Mariners

thats how it will turn out.

1. Angels
2. Rangers
3. Mariners
4. Sacramento A's

Yanksin2010
01-10-2005, 06:22 PM
Why would the yankees want to spend 115 million on someone they don't even need. I'll take another year with bernie and then go and get torri hunter or pierre.

ahhchon
01-11-2005, 01:52 PM
Call it a friendly bet, 5-10$ sound good?

i bet you 20 bucks that the A's will not come in dead last in the al west.

john

sarasoxfan
01-11-2005, 01:57 PM
i thinkjohn is right...as much as it pains me to say it.

Zenny
01-11-2005, 10:17 PM
BSR, not surprisingly, is the only one who is correct about Moneyball. It is about finding undervalued players on a short budget. It's not purely OBP. It's not purely leaving runners where they are and waiting for the 3-run homer. Sure, OBP is a big part of it because teams with guys on base more often are more likely to get a run in. Duh. It's not about sitting there with your bat up your ass hoping the pitcher is wild enough to walk you.

Also, OBP isn't just for hitters. Pitchers who throw strikes are also a key component because, again, the less hitters on base, the less likely the opposition is going to score. I don't understand why everyone hates Beane and his ideas so much. You try building a perennial contendor on $30 million bucks.

Oh yeah, Crespo, great strategy. Let's judge a draft two and a half years after it. You can't properly judge a draft until 25 years after the fact when all players have retired.

Also for your, "where does this leave Jeremy Brown?" question in regards to the A's acquiring Daric Barton. It's called depth. That's what makes teams strong. Then, they can later judge who's the better player and trade the other for what they need.

In regard to Dan Meyer, so these two innings never existed, huh: http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/stats/mlb_individual_player_gamebygamelog.jsp?playerID=4 34159&statType=2

The A's are winning a World Series within the next 5 years. That future rotation is just too good and too scary and all of those ridiculously good young hitters they have that play very good defense as well. Have fun crying yourself to sleep when Billy Beane makes you look like an asshole.

stevece80
01-12-2005, 08:59 PM
I'm willing to put down 100 dollars US on the A's not finishing in last. Anyone up? I've got a Paypal account that doesn't mind an easy 100.

BoSox Rule
01-12-2005, 09:03 PM
BSR, not surprisingly, is the only one who is correct about Moneyball.

:( That brought tears to my eyes Zenny. KIND WORDS!

Zenny
01-12-2005, 09:04 PM
:( That brought tears to my eyes Zenny. KIND WORDS!
:lol: Things I'm not known for.

Oh, and Seattle's finishing last in the division... AGAIN!

CrespoBlows
01-14-2005, 10:05 AM
Oh yeah, Crespo, great strategy. Let's judge a draft two and a half years after it. You can't properly judge a draft until 25 years after the fact when all players have retired.

No, but you can tell on where the players are going.

The A's are winning a World Series within the next 5 years. That future rotation is just too good and too scary and all of those ridiculously good young hitters they have that play very good defense as well. Have fun crying yourself to sleep when Billy Beane makes you look like an asshole.

Red Sox Fan? The A's haven't won anything even with the big 3, they won't win without them. They'll lose a lot of money this year with the fans staying away.

stevece80
01-14-2005, 06:11 PM
The fans stay away? You act like they showed up when they had the "big three". There was no drop in attendance when Giambi left. None when Tejada left. There will be no drop next year. They're not faithful, but they're damn consistent in attendance, even with 100+ win teams on the field. The only drop in attendance will be if the team totally sucks, it has nothing to do with adding and subtracting players.

element1151
01-16-2005, 01:35 AM
1. A's
2. Angels
3. Rangers
4. Mariners

Are you on crack? No way A's finish above 3rd place. Maybe not last, but definitely not 2nd or 1st.

I'm with Crespo:
1. Angels
2. Rangers
3. Mariners
4. A's

Or: (If the Rangers fall)
1. Angels
2. Mariners
3. Rangers
4. A's

CrespoBlows
01-16-2005, 10:33 AM
The fans stay away? You act like they showed up when they had the "big three". There was no drop in attendance when Giambi left. None when Tejada left. There will be no drop next year. They're not faithful, but they're damn consistent in attendance, even with 100+ win teams on the field. The only drop in attendance will be if the team totally sucks, it has nothing to do with adding and subtracting players.

Which they will next year, they'll go 70-92 next year.

BTW are you an A's fan?

CrespoBlows
01-16-2005, 10:34 AM
You act like they showed up when they had the "big three"

Um, remember when the A's won 22 in a row? They sold out the Coliseum 5 consective times

BoSox Rule
01-16-2005, 11:39 AM
Are you on crack? No way A's finish above 3rd place. Maybe not last, but definitely not 2nd or 1st.

I'm with Crespo:
1. Angels
2. Rangers
3. Mariners
4. A's

Or: (If the Rangers fall)
1. Angels
2. Mariners
3. Rangers
4. A's
There is no way the A's are going to finish last. There is no way.

stevece80
01-16-2005, 11:49 AM
First off, no, I'm not an A's fan. Should I be? If you're up for some easy money, why don't you make a bet with someone about your prediction?

Secondly, I'm finding one game that looked like a sellout amongst the A's 20 consecutive game winning streak, the 20th game, in which 55,528 showed up for a Wednesday night game against the Royals. Tickets cost one dollar on Wednesdays in Oakland.

2000, the A's have Giambi, Chavez, Tejada, Ramon Hernandez, and Ben Grieve in the lineup. Mulder, Hudson, Zito, Appier in the rotation and Isringhausen still in the bullpen. They win 91 games, win the division, and just 1.6 million show up. Now to backtrack a bit from what I said earlier, the only thing that's going to put fans in the seats to watch the A's is relocating the franchise, or an outside chance a new stadium will do the trick. It will have nothing to do with the alledgedly poor quality of next year's squad.

CrespoBlows
01-16-2005, 12:39 PM
So if people don't go it's because of the stadium? Doesn't make much sense considering Network Coliseum is a pretty nice place to go watch a game, you should get out in see one being an A's fan in all.

The Mariners had a steep drop in attendance this year, why? Because of the team's poor play.

The Devil Rays never sell out, but they sold half the stadium when they won 13 in a row.

People go to see winning teams, regardless of who's on it. And to quote moneyball "Lose with stars, and no one shows, "win with the unknowns, and they become stars."

That's what Beane is trying to do, and he has done a great job of doing it. But trying to win with all rookies? C'mon this isn't the NFL or NBA.

Zenny
01-16-2005, 12:51 PM
Network Associates Coliseum is a nice place to see a game? Maybe if you like concrete. The place is a dump.

I'm through arguing with you about this. The A's have put a quality team on the field with an above average offense, the best bullpen in baseball and a rotation with tremendous amounts of upside. It's clear that you have something against the A's. Why that is, I don't know or care. Just don't be ignorant.

CrespoBlows
01-16-2005, 12:59 PM
Their offense is really good, I agree with you there.

They have don't have much of a bullpen, if you consider Dotel a quality closer, then that's your opinion. Who else is in there besides Mecir? Don't bring up Street, he has failed to throw one pitch in the majors, and Garica got lit up in his apperance.

I'm not saying the A's are going to suck forever, they'll be really good a year from now, but trying to have rookies win it all? I don't think that's going to go so well, espically this year.

BTW, I went to the Coliseum to see a day game, it was a nice place to go, cheap tickets, good view, and good food. They need to fix up the outfield seats, and elimate those shit seats way up on top.

stevece80
01-16-2005, 01:02 PM
So I'm an A's fan because I don't think they'll come in last place? I could give a crap less about them, but I'm not about to write them off because of it.

CrespoBlows
01-16-2005, 01:06 PM
Either your a closet A's fan or an extremly pessimistic Red Sox fan

ahhchon
01-16-2005, 01:11 PM
First off, no, I'm not an A's fan. Should I be? If you're up for some easy money, why don't you make a bet with someone about your prediction?



he did, he bet me ten bucks, when i upped it to twenty i got no responce.

john

stevece80
01-16-2005, 01:12 PM
Hahahahahaha. Yeah, I'm a pessimistic Red Sox fan. I really don't think anyone has ever referred to me as even the slightest bit of a pessimist when it comes to them. I think you're addressing the wrong person in this thread if you're going to put that tag on me.

How in the world am I pessimistic in any way shape or form towards the Boston Red Sox? I'm dying to know.

yeszir
01-16-2005, 01:15 PM
On a completely unrelated note, how come no one can seem to quote other people correctly? I've gone through and fixed maybe 4 quotes already today....I didnt think it was so hard to use the correct tags.

CrespoBlows
01-16-2005, 02:01 PM
Hahahahahaha. Yeah, I'm a pessimistic Red Sox fan. I really don't think anyone has ever referred to me as even the slightest bit of a pessimist when it comes to them. I think you're addressing the wrong person in this thread if you're going to put that tag on me.

How in the world am I pessimistic in any way shape or form towards the Boston Red Sox? I'm dying to know.

Papelbon = decent reliever

And you seemed so willing to back the Mets on another subject

And here, you love Moneyball a lot.

CrespoBlows
01-16-2005, 02:01 PM
he did, he bet me ten bucks, when i upped it to twenty i got no responce.

john

I'll do 20

Zenny
01-16-2005, 02:53 PM
They have don't have much of a bullpen, if you consider Dotel a quality closer, then that's your opinion. Who else is in there besides Mecir? Don't bring up Street, he has failed to throw one pitch in the majors, and Garica got lit up in his apperance.
So you're going to judge Garcia on less than 10 innings as opposed to the nearly 100 innings of pure dominance in the minors (all with very good peripherals, which are extremely important in judging future success)? Also, Huston Street was brilliant at every stop last year, again with excellent peripherals. You also forgot Kiko Calero and Juan Cruz, who both posted very good seasons last year. Playing in the spacious NAC should keep their number transfers from NL to AL intact. Dotel isn't an ideal closer, but he did pitch much better after the initial struggles he had after the trade. I should know, he was on my fantasy team. Granted, I should've taken Lidge over Dotel, but I didn't see that trade coming.


I'm not saying the A's are going to suck forever, they'll be really good a year from now, but trying to have rookies win it all? I don't think that's going to go so well, espically this year.
When did I say they were going to win it all this year? I said within the next five and they would not finish in last this year. I don't know if they have what it takes to beat the Angels (as overrated as I believe they are), but Seattle's pitching staff is still bottom-tier and Texas made no real improvements. The A's are going to finish first or second, depending upon the rotations of both teams.

stevece80
01-16-2005, 04:13 PM
Papelbon = decent reliever

And you seemed so willing to back the Mets on another subject

And here, you love Moneyball a lot.

I said if Papelbon didn't bust out at AA, which I'm hoping will happen, his upside is a decent reliever. What's wrong with that statement? How many minor leaguers are ever "decent relievers" in the majors? How many pitching prospects fail? Most?

I'm willing to back the Mets because it's ridiculously petty to bash another team, when the team you alledgedly love is just as guilty of doing what you were ripping them for.

I love Moneyball a lot? I don't love it at all. I'm just not a moron who has some bizarre grudge against it for whatever reason. And let's talk about what a failure that draft was. It landed them one of the top prospects in the game, that's ready to step into the rotation this season in Joe Blanton. It yielded a quality prospect they were able to budge their way into the Beltran deal and come away with the best setup man in the game. It netted their starting right fielder, Nick Swisher. I hope this year's draft for the Red Sox is as disastrous as their's was.

I laugh, because this is the first place I've ever posted where my loyalty towards the Red Sox has been questioned. And to think, I've left certain Red Sox forums because I was tired of the negativity towards the Red Sox. Well, you're the boss. I'm just an A's fan, I guess.

CrespoBlows
01-16-2005, 04:46 PM
I said if Papelbon didn't bust out at AA, which I'm hoping will happen, his upside is a decent reliever. What's wrong with that statement? How many minor leaguers are ever "decent relievers" in the majors? How many pitching prospects fail? Most?

I'm willing to back the Mets because it's ridiculously petty to bash another team, when the team you alledgedly love is just as guilty of doing what you were ripping them for.

I love Moneyball a lot? I don't love it at all. I'm just not a moron who has some bizarre grudge against it for whatever reason. And let's talk about what a failure that draft was. It landed them one of the top prospects in the game, that's ready to step into the rotation this season in Joe Blanton. It yielded a quality prospect they were able to budge their way into the Beltran deal and come away with the best setup man in the game. It netted their starting right fielder, Nick Swisher. I hope this year's draft for the Red Sox is as disastrous as their's was.

I laugh, because this is the first place I've ever posted where my loyalty towards the Red Sox has been questioned. And to think, I've left certain Red Sox forums because I was tired of the negativity towards the Red Sox. Well, you're the boss. I'm just an A's fan, I guess.

A guy with a 98 mph fastball, and two other plus pitches is a decent reliever?

Under the Theo regime, I haven't seen much of the bad contract

OK you don't like Moneyball, and your not an A's fan. Agreed.

stevece80
01-16-2005, 06:56 PM
A guy with a 98 mph fastball, and two other plus pitches is a decent reliever?


Papelbon doesn't have a 98 MPH fastball. Try again.

I shouldn't expect much more from a Devil Rays fan such as yourself, anyways.

CrespoBlows
01-17-2005, 03:05 PM
Uh, yeah he's hit 98 a couple of times

http://soxprospects.com/players/papelbon-jon.htm

CrespoBlows
01-17-2005, 03:07 PM
I shouldn't expect much more from a Devil Rays fan such as yourself, anyways.

I haven't even brought up the Devil Rays, and you seem to be Billy Beane's fuck buddy.

stevece80
01-17-2005, 05:42 PM
Uh, yeah he's hit 98 a couple of times

http://soxprospects.com/players/papelbon-jon.htm

Radar guns are wrong quite often, maybe he's approached it, maybe touched it, but I've seen absolutely nothing that has stated he touches that number consistently. Even the link you've provided explicitly states that his fastball is in the mid-90s, but I'd be willing to bet he operates mostly around 92-93. You gigantic gaylord.

CalvnHobs6
01-17-2005, 05:54 PM
Guys, please keep the debate on topic, it really is very interesting and informative, and I would hate to have to move it to fights. Keep the debate active here, and bitch each other out in the Fights section.

CrespoBlows
01-17-2005, 06:16 PM
Mid 90's meaning 95 mph, which isn't bad.

Gigantic gaylord, haha, so tasteless and orginal

stevece80
01-17-2005, 06:18 PM
I wasn't trying to be tasteful or original. I was trying to be childish and petty. I think I hit on both counts.

Respek.

yeszir
01-17-2005, 06:22 PM
As much as I want to, this thread is not splittable. The insults and fighting (one of the posts was reported to me) is intertwined with the semi-related baseball stuff. :(

stevece80
01-17-2005, 06:50 PM
I'll stop posting then. I just came out of hiding at Netsports, so I'll just leave this forum open for CrespoBlows to whine about utility infielders and sabermetrics.

CalvnHobs6
01-17-2005, 06:53 PM
Erection - Please keep posting, you're one of the most informed and opinionated posters here- which makes for an awesomely deadly combination.

Zenny
01-17-2005, 07:22 PM
:lol: I knew HE was Steve from the moment the Ali G references came up.

yeszir
01-17-2005, 07:34 PM
I'll stop posting then. I just came out of hiding at Netsports, so I'll just leave this forum open for CrespoBlows to whine about utility infielders and sabermetrics.
No, don't leave. :( You're the most knowledgeable poster on netsports (no offense to Zenny).

Zenny
01-17-2005, 07:34 PM
No, don't leave. :( You're the most knowledgeable poster on netsports (no offense to Zenny).
None taken. I agree with you.

yagmaster
01-17-2005, 11:54 PM
His other avatar was freaking Ali G. Did you miss that one?

CrespoBlows
01-18-2005, 08:51 AM
I'll stop posting then. I just came out of hiding at Netsports, so I'll just leave this forum open for CrespoBlows to whine about utility infielders and sabermetrics.

No one wants you to leave, I see you have a different opinion and I respect it.

Zenny
01-18-2005, 02:12 PM
His other avatar was freaking Ali G. Did you miss that one?
No, that's what I'm saying. As soon as I saw it, I got it.

yeszir
01-18-2005, 02:44 PM
His other avatar was freaking Ali G. Did you miss that one?
You don't know what Zenny's talking about though.

Yanksin2010
01-19-2005, 05:07 PM
HE is at the MESS Boards too I believe, everybody seems to want him gone. Naturally I guess.

stevece80
01-23-2005, 02:36 PM
What the hell is the "MESS" boards? I primarily post at two boards, and have been a part-timer at a Mets and Phillies board.

BoSox Rule
01-23-2005, 02:37 PM
YES Networks.

yeszir
01-23-2005, 03:02 PM
What the hell is the "MESS" boards? I primarily post at two boards, and have been a part-timer at a Mets and Phillies board.
http://boards.yesnetwork.com, and its a mess over there.

stevece80
01-23-2005, 03:28 PM
Wow, I'm a poster there? Awesome. It's too bad they want me to leave, though.

stevece80
08-02-2005, 06:52 PM
Bump