Yankees and Mientkiewicz agree to terms

[jacksonianmarch]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/01042007/sports/yankees/yanks__doug_reach_tentative_deal_yankees_michael_m orrissey.htm

No money yet, but it Mientkiewicz will be in NY to take a physical. The physical for him, as it will be for RJ will be a bit more extensive as both had the same surgery. Doug's was during the season and he is younger, so he is likely to be further along in the recovery. A newspaper outlet previously said that he had been running and fielding, but he was a little bit away from swinging a bat.

[Mr Crunchy]

hes a solid 210 hitter with no power or speed but a great glove
the yanks can hide his bat in their lineup a couple days a week

[riverside sluggers]

Oh yea, he's going to get booed at Fenway Park. Although that was a given when the rumors were starting to fly earlier this offseason. He's sure to give the Yankees a solid glove at 1st base

[jacksonianmarch]

hes a solid 210 hitter with no power or speed but a great glove
the yanks can hide his bat in their lineup a couple days a week

he's not spectacular by any means. He is a career .275 hitter with a career OBP of .350. I'd take that.

[a700hitter]

Another move backward by the Yankees. So far this offseason, the Yankees haven't made one move that made me say "Damn!" They usually make at least two of those moves every off-season.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Another move backward by the Yankees. So far this offseason, the Yankees haven't made one move that made me say "Damn!" They usually make at least two of those moves every off-season.

And where did it get us?

Cashman is sneaky; he's making moves that will make you say "Damn!" at the end of the season instead. ;)

[a700hitter]

And where did it get us?

Cashman is sneaky; he's making moves that will make you say "Damn!" at the end of the season instead. ;)Is this where we play role reversal and I remind you of the string of AL East Championships?

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Is this where we play role reversal and I remind you of the string of AL East Championships?

Is this the part where I remind you of the collossal disappointments the yankees have been in the postseason since 2000?

AL East crowns are nothing to be proud of. Not with the money this team spends.

[a700hitter]

Is this the part where I remind you of the collossal disappointments the yankees have been in the postseason since 2000?

AL East crowns are nothing to be proud of. Not with the money this team spends.It makes it even harder to win the WS if you don't make the playoffs. The Yankees were the best team in the post-season tournament this year. They should have rolled over the competition, but they went flat, choked or whatever. I am glad that within a few short months after the Yankees were being heralded as a juggernaut with one of the best lineups in history that Cashman is dismantling that team. I hope he moves ARod next.

[Gom]

It makes it even harder to win the WS if you don't make the playoffs. The Yankees were the best team in the post-season tournament this year. They should have rolled over the competition, but they went flat, choked or whatever. I am glad that within a few short months after the Yankees were being heralded as a juggernaut with one of the best lineups in history that Cashman is dismantling that team. I hope he moves ARod next.

Oh Lord...can you believe this guy? Just what exactly has he dismantled? Have you realized what he has done so far? Let's take a look at what he got rid of this offseason.

A 43 year old pitcher who was a collosal disappointment this season, who will not be ready for the start of the upcoming season due to major back surgery who was making 16 million.

A 39 year old malcontent than missed all but two months due to a serious injury to his wrist. This was accomplished without eating a penny of his salary.

A 31 year old pitcher who averaged 4.6 innings per start and burned out the bullpen win or lose.

He brought in a solid starting pitcher in Pettitte, a projected back of the rotation starter or servicable reliever in Igawa, completely restocked the farm system with 6 prospects, two of whom which are considered potential top of the rotation possibilites. He also brought in two servicable arms in Britton and Vizcaino [knowing how Torre burns his pen, this is huge], brought in one of the top defensive firstbasemen in Mientkiewicz, allowing the fragile Giambi to solely DH.

Yeah, I guess you are right. Complete dismantling. The Yankees are going to be battling the Blue Jays for 2nd place.

Try to go easy on the eggnog next Christmas.

[riverside sluggers]

a projected back of the rotation starter or servicable reliever in Igawa

Basically Igawa could be a serviceable reliever... I dont see what the big hassle was to first post $26 million to talk to him then sign a 5 year contract. Basically it could turn out to be 5 years/$46 million for a guy who could be a serviceable reliever in the end, Im not yet seeing how this was an impact move by New York

[jacksonianmarch]

Basically Igawa could be a serviceable reliever... I dont see what the big hassle was to first post $26 million to talk to him then sign a 5 year contract. Basically it could turn out to be 5 years/$46 million for a guy who could be a serviceable reliever in the end, Im not yet seeing how this was an impact move by New York

It is a move that made Lilly's signing unnecessary. Igawa will cost much less than Lilly will overall (Lilly would have cost 56 mil over 4 yrs while Igawa will cost 54 mil over 5). Igawa is more durable than Lilly, and mark my word, Igawa will be a good #4 on this team.

[a700hitter]

Oh Lord...can you believe this guy? Just what exactly has he dismantled? Have you realized what he has done so far? Let's take a look at what he got rid of this offseason.He got rid of a pitcher that won 34 games over the last 2 years and beat the Red Sox in 7 out of 8 decisions. Oh BTW he's going to the HOF. They got a mediocre 32 year old reliever and 3 so-so prospects. Yea for me.:thumbsup: They also got rid of an OF that averaged 31 HRs and 125 RBI over the past 3 years prior to his injury. For this likely HOF they got some prospects, one of whom might make the 2007 bullpen. Yea for me.:thumbsup: They got rid of an 11 game-winning starter for a fatso middle reliever that will pitch in a mopup role.
brought in one of the top defensive firstbasemen in Mientkiewicz, allowing the fragile Giambi to solely DH. Too bad he can't hit a lick. He's probably a step down from Phillip's bat.
Yeah, I guess you are right. Complete dismantling. The Yankees are going to be battling the Blue Jays for 2nd place.I never said the dismantling is completed. I am hoping that there is more to come. I am looking forward to Melky going to Pittsburgh

BTW: I am not one who believed that they were one of the all-time juggernauts like many Yankee fans believed as the playoffs began. They were, however, the superior team in the playoffs. ARod choked, Torre panicked and the team folded its tent showing little or no heart. Certainly, the solution was to get rid of two future HOFers. I like it. Go Cashman.:thumbsup:

[Gom]

He got rid of a pitcher that won 34 games over the last 2 years and beat the Red Sox in 7 out of 8 decisions. Oh BTW he's going to the HOF.
Maybe they should get Christy Mathewson. He's in the Hall of Fame too. Wait...he's dead. Never mind. Last year he was 2-1 versus the Red Sox with a 7.17 ERA. Last year against the Sox, in 21.1 innings, he gave up 17 runs on 26 hits, 3 of them homreuns with 16 walks. Yeah, he really dominated you guys. The fact that he won any game shows how pathetic your pitching was in those games.


They got a mediocre 32 year old reliever and 3 so-so prospects. Yea for me.:thumbsup: They also got rid of an OF that averaged 31 HRs and 125 RBI over the past 3 years prior to his injury. For this likely HOF they got some prospects, one of whom might make the 2007 bullpen. Yea for me.:thumbsup:
A malcontent who had no power at the end of last season due to a major injury to his wrist, where he gets the majority of his power from. A player who didn't want to switch positions to help the team, and was only interested in his own welfare. If healthy, his production will be missed, but his post-season production in NY [.260 BA, 2 HR in 81 AB] will not be missed.

They got rid of an 11 game-winning starter for a fatso middle reliever that will pitch in a mopup role.I don't know if you actually watch baseball and don't know the Yankees or simply don't comprehend it. 11 wins on the Yankees is not an accomplishment as a pitcher, not when you have 30 starts. The fact that he averaged 4.6 innings a start and killed the bullpen made him more of a detriment than anything else. They burned the pen with him win or lose. At least with Randy Johnson [or Beckett in your case] if they pitched well, they went deep into games. A major addition by subtraction.
Too bad he can't hit a lick. He's probably a step down from Phillip's bat.Mientkiewicz was brought in to play defense, and give below average offensive contribution. His primary value is to keep Giambi OFF the field. Call me crazy, but I think the Yankees will finish in the top half of offensive production in the AL next year. Having below average production when you are getting above average offensive production from EVERY OTHER SPOT POSITION ON THE FIELD makes one below average production easier to swallow.
I never said the dismantling is completed. I am hoping that there is more to come. I am looking forward to Melky going to PittsburghWho knows? I like Melky, but unlike most Yankee fans, I'm not in love with him. Getting a fireballing lefty pitcher out of the pen to be your setup man is worth your fourth outfielder, in my opinion. That deal, however, hasn't been made yet.

BTW: I am not one who believed that they were one of the all-time juggernauts like many Yankee fans believed as the playoffs began. They were, however, the superior team in the playoffs. ARod choked, Torre panicked and the team folded its tent showing little or no heart. Certainly, the solution was to get rid of two future HOFers. I like it. Go Cashman.:thumbsup:

I think I have proven where you thumb has been at this point.

[Optimist]

When did trading old, declining, expensive players for young players with plenty of potential (especially young pitchers) become a bad thing?


....oh yeah, when the Yankees started doing it. Sorry, I forgot what site I was on for a moment.

[Gom]

When did trading old, declining, expensive players for young players with plenty of potential (especially young pitchers) become a bad thing?


....oh yeah, when the Yankees started doing it. Sorry, I forgot what site I was on for a moment.

LOL!

[SuperManny]

When did trading old, declining, expensive players for young players with plenty of potential (especially young pitchers) become a bad thing?

....oh yeah, when the Yankees started doing it. Sorry, I forgot what site I was on for a moment.

The Sheffield trade was good because Sanchez actually has upside. Who in the Arizona deal has upside? From what I saw the Yankees are getting the #18-20 prospects in the Arizona system. They are fringe prospects at best, none are even close to having plenty of potential. This is a complete salary dump although they did get a mediocre RP as well in Luis Vizcaino.

[jacksonianmarch]

He got rid of a pitcher that won 34 games over the last 2 years and beat the Red Sox in 7 out of 8 decisions. Oh BTW he's going to the HOF. They got a mediocre 32 year old reliever and 3 so-so prospects. Yea for me.:thumbsup: They also got rid of an OF that averaged 31 HRs and 125 RBI over the past 3 years prior to his injury. For this likely HOF they got some prospects, one of whom might make the 2007 bullpen. Yea for me.:thumbsup: They got rid of an 11 game-winning starter for a fatso middle reliever that will pitch in a mopup role. Too bad he can't hit a lick. He's probably a step down from Phillip's bat.I never said the dismantling is completed. I am hoping that there is more to come. I am looking forward to Melky going to Pittsburgh

BTW: I am not one who believed that they were one of the all-time juggernauts like many Yankee fans believed as the playoffs began. They were, however, the superior team in the playoffs. ARod choked, Torre panicked and the team folded its tent showing little or no heart. Certainly, the solution was to get rid of two future HOFers. I like it. Go Cashman.:thumbsup:

700. Can you seriously sit back and say that this offseason was poor for us? How can anyone in their right mind sit back and say that without residing at least 3 days per week in a rubber room and the other 4 in a gimp outfit giving BJ's in front of the Cask 'n Flagon? (got that one from Mr. C!).

Gary Sheffield gave us 151 wonderful ABs for us last yr. 123 of them were when we needed them, the rest were during junk time. He was replaced by Bobby Abreu as the RFer who is a defensive and speed upgrade, a power downgrade, but a durability, average and OBP upgrade. Sheff had no position, had come off wrist surgery, and was a malcontent, so he was dealt. With a full season of Matsui and Abreu, Sheffield will be a distant memory. Also, sheffield was only going to be here 1 more yr as it was. We took the #3, 6, and 11 pitching prospects from one of the deepest pitching systems in the majors and got rid of his contract and we got rid of 13 mil.

Randy Johnson is 43, coming off back surgery, declined to such a degree that he is mostly just useful for his durability. And after having back surgery, that isnt even plausible. With the likelihood that he misses a month or more a strong possibility, what is an expectation for him? 150IP at the most? Likely 130 maybe? An era in the 5 range? A further decline in effectiveness? And he is only signed for one more yr. Is that really something that is flat out irreplaceable? Didnt think so. His record vs the sox could have been 90-1 vs the sox, if his ERA was 7.5 last yr then anyone could win those games as we likely beat the piss out of your pitching. And to turn that into a top 10 pitching prospect and another high potential pitcher, then so be it. The Yankees got Andy Pettitte to be what RJ wasnt last yr. A reliable starter, not an ace, but a reliable starter. Igawa will likely give us what RJ gave us last yr in durability. The 5 hole can be a swinging gate for all I care, we have lots of MLB ready talent to fit the bill.

Jaret Wright was about to be bought out for 4 mil. He was useless. We were about to let him go by paying 4 mil. Instead we got rid of him for 4 mil and were given a 24 yr old power reliever who had success in the AL last yr.

Yeah, man, we really dealt such viable pieces to us that we have no prayer. Shit. And the whole restocking the arms in our farm wont help us either.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Sheffield trade was good because Sanchez actually has upside. Who in the Arizona deal has upside? From what I saw the Yankees are getting the #18-20 prospects in the Arizona system. They are fringe prospects at best, none are even close to having plenty of potential. This is a complete salary dump although they did get a mediocre RP as well in Luis Vizcaino.

Ohlendorf will be top 10 in BA and is #11 on scouts.com. He is higher on the list than Nippert and is essentially the 3rd best pitching prospect in the loaded DBack org. I would have rather gotten Owings.

Jackson is rated #21 on scout.com. What I dont really get is he had a very solid AA season last yr (2.5ish era), he has ace stuff and he's pretty low on the list. A DBacks scouting system said he is an all or nothing kind of player. Meaning, he has about the same chance of being anything useful as he does of crapping out. Either way, he ends up in the AAA rotation next yr and we see what happens.

The SS is Rafael Belliard until proven otherwise, a throwin for nothing useful.

The fact that both of these pitchers flew through AA is a sign of what Cashman is looking for. He is looking for MLB ready talent. Like the kind you trade for something of value.

[a700hitter]

Maybe they should get Christy Mathewson. He's in the Hall of Fame too. Wait...he's dead. Never mind. Last year he was 2-1 versus the Red Sox with a 7.17 ERA. Last year against the Sox, in 21.1 innings, he gave up 17 runs on 26 hits, 3 of them homreuns with 16 walks. Yeah, he really dominated you guys. The fact that he won any game shows how pathetic your pitching was in those games17 wins with a herniated disc isn't bad. I guess you make no allowance for the fact that the injury severely affected the feeling in his legs.
A malcontent who had no power at the end of last season due to a major injury to his wrist, where he gets the majority of his power from. A player who didn't want to switch positions to help the team, and was only interested in his own welfare. If healthy, his production will be missed, but his post-season production in NY [.260 BA, 2 HR in 81 AB] will not be missed.All I know is that I won't miss that feeling that I used to get that he was going to knock down the monster. It won't be as scary against the Tigers.
I don't know if you actually watch baseball and don't know the Yankees or simply don't comprehend it. 11 wins on the Yankees is not an accomplishment as a pitcher, not when you have 30 starts.Stop the condescending BS. In 2005, the Yankees only had 2 pitchers with more than 10 wins and even though I'm not a big Wright fan, he did pitch well against the Red Sox. His ERA against the Red Sox was more than 2 full runs better than Wang.
The fact that he averaged 4.6 innings a start and killed the bullpen made him more of a detriment than anything else. They burned the pen with him win or lose. At least with Randy Johnson [or Beckett in your case] if they pitched well, they went deep into games. A major addition by subtraction.Although he didn't help your pen, the #5 slot killed the pen too as well as Torre's penchant to go to the horses way too much.
I like Melky, but unlike most Yankee fans, I'm not in love with him. Getting a fireballing lefty pitcher out of the pen to be your setup man is worth your fourth outfielder, in my opinion. I will not miss him either. Make the deal.

[a700hitter]

When did trading old, declining, expensive players for young players with plenty of potential (especially young pitchers) become a bad thing?
I think it is a wonderful change of strategy. Keep trading productive all-star quality players for mediocre minor league prospects. Go Cashman!

[jacksonianmarch]

17 wins with a herniated disc isnt bad. Hanging onto a 16 million dollar, 43 yr old declining pitcher expected to miss the first month of the season while being offered 2 pitching prospects that are MLB ready is bad.

In 2005, we only had 2 pitchers surpass 10 wins because we had 5 starters on the DL for long periods of time. Last yr, our top 4 each reached 30 starts. Last yr, we had Chacon slated for the #5 slot. He was awful. Pavano fell off the face of the earth and the kids were too green to do anything about it. I'll tell ya right now, you are going to be surprised with how solid the yankee rotation is. I'm not saying spectacular or fantastic or anything like that, just solid. The top 4 will break 800 innings. If Pavano stays healthy, then he'll give us something. If he doesnt, he may give us something more. The start of the Phil Hughes era.

[a700hitter]

700. Can you seriously sit back and say that this offseason was poor for us? How can anyone in their right mind sit back and say that without residing at least 3 days per week in a rubber room and the other 4 in a gimp outfit giving BJ's in front of the Cask 'n Flagon? (got that one from Mr. C!).I haven't said it was poor. Maybe in three years these moves bear fruit, but he hasn't done a single thing to give me cause for concern in 2007. Pettitte was a nice move that was neutralized by trading Unit. We'll see if he gets Clemens. I will not like that, but he shouldn't hurt the Sox head to head. We will see if he has other moves up his sleeve. If his only other move is trading Melky, he will not have done a thing to concern me for 2007. On the other hand, the Red Sox have made some major strides forward. Granted that the Red Sox had more work to do, but they have significantly closed the gap.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think it is a wonderful change of strategy. Keep trading productive all-star quality players for mediocre minor league prospects. Go Cashman!

you werent calling RJ all star quality after last season were you? Cause if he was an all-star, then the AL should pack it in. He was 33rd out of 39 pitchers to qualify in era last yr. Last I checked, that sucks.

Sheff and his awe-inspiring 150ABs and bad attitude will not be missed while Abreu is roaming RF. And since when is Wright an all-star quality player.

[a700hitter]

you werent calling RJ all star quality after last season were you? Cause if he was an all-star, then the AL should pack it in. He was 33rd out of 39 pitchers to qualify in era last yr. Last I checked, that sucks.

Sheff and his awe-inspiring 150ABs and bad attitude will not be missed while Abreu is roaming RF. And since when is Wright an all-star quality player.Both were injure. Both should be healthy in 2007.

[jacksonianmarch]

I haven't said it was poor. Maybe in three years these moves bear fruit, but he hasn't done a single thing to give me cause for concern in 2007. Pettitte was a nice move that was neutralized by trading Unit. We'll see if he gets Clemens. I will not like that, but he shouldn't hurt the Sox head to head. We will see if he has other moves up his sleeve. If his only other move is trading Melky, he will not have done a thing to concern me for 2007. On the other hand, the Red Sox have made some major strides forward. Granted that the Red Sox had more work to do, but they have significantly closed the gap.

700. You keep forgetting that last season we were 11 games up on you guys while getting less than 400ABs out of Abreu and Matsui combined. Give both of those guys a full season and it is like acquiring your own elite power bat to the best lineup in baseball.

You also forget that we had 3 pitchers who surpassed 200IP and a 4 and 5 hole that ate dick. Our current 1-4 totalled over 800 innings last yr. AND, our rookies are one yr closer to bearing fruit. A rotation of Wang, Mussina, Pettitte, Igawa and Hughes sounds real nice right now.

[jacksonianmarch]

Both were injure. Both should be healthy in 2007.

no, RJ may be healthy this yr. But it will likely cost him a part of the season and who knows how he will react/bounceback at 43.

[a700hitter]

A rotation of Wang, Mussina, Pettitte, Igawa and Hughes sounds real nice right now.I am glad you like it. I am glad Johnson is not in it.

[jacksonianmarch]

I hear ya. I wouldnt want the yankees to make the games they are blowing you out any closer. They pull at my heartstrings.

[a700hitter]

no, RJ may be healthy this yr. But it will likely cost him a part of the season and who knows how he will react/bounceback at 43.Prediction: He'll do far more for AZ in 2007 than anyone the Yankees are getting in return will do for them.

[jacksonianmarch]

Prediction: He'll do far more for AZ in 2007 than anyone the Yankees are getting in return will do for them.

that will have more to do with arizona being in a shitty division than him being any good.

[a700hitter]

that will have more to do with arizona being in a shitty division than him being any good.We will have to see how he does against the Yankees in 2007.

[jacksonianmarch]

We will have to see how he does against the Yankees in 2007.

We shall.

[a700hitter]

700. You keep forgetting that last season we were 11 games up on you guys while getting less than 400ABs out of Abreu and Matsui combined. Give both of those guys a full season and it is like acquiring your own elite power bat to the best lineup in baseball.We've faced Matsui for several years already. Abreu is a good replacement for Sheffield. The Johnson-Pettitte swap is a wash. There is no addition to last years roster that concerns me for 2007, and I am quite pleased that they didn't keep Sheffield and Johnson. I really would not like facing a lineup with Sheffield at 1B and Giambi at DH, with a rotation of Wang, Moose, Johnson, Pettitte, and Igawa.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I recall you calling RJ a BP pitcher last season 700. Why the change of heart? Now your glad hes gone.

[jacksonianmarch]

I recall you calling RJ a BP pitcher last season 700. Why the change of heart? Now your glad hes gone.

If we traded Andy Phillips for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter, he'd be telling us how integral to our plans Phillips was.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

If we traded Andy Phillips for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter, he'd be telling us how integral to our plans Phillips was.

Oh I'm fully aware of that.

[elsrbueno]

If we traded Andy Phillips for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter, he'd be telling us how integral to our plans Phillips was.

If anyone can be accused of seeing things "through rose colored glasses" when it comes to your favorite team it's you, Jackson.

Listen-- I like your passion but most of your expectations are unrealistic. On the same token, a700 has a similar passion for the Red Sox that I believe he lets get in the way of an objective opinion. As a general rule too, he has a mistrust of prospects and an overtrust of name brand guys. He'd trade Hughes in a second for Curt Schilling or Bartolo Colon because of what they've DONE, not necessarily what they CAN DO and that's fine and dandy in the short term, but not a strong long term plan.

a700-- I like your passion too, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating things as I see them.

but Jackson, let's refrain from the "pot calling the kettle black" senario.

[jacksonianmarch]

If anyone can be accused of seeing things "through rose colored glasses" when it comes to your favorite team it's you, Jackson.

Listen-- I like your passion but most of your expectations are unrealistic. On the same token, a700 has a similar passion for the Red Sox that I believe he lets get in the way of an objective opinion. As a general rule too, he has a mistrust of prospects and an overtrust of name brand guys. He'd trade Hughes in a second for Curt Schilling or Bartolo Colon because of what they've DONE, not necessarily what they CAN DO and that's fine and dandy in the short term, but not a strong long term plan.

a700-- I like your passion too, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating things as I see them.

but Jackson, let's refrain from the "pot calling the kettle black" senario.

I hear ya man. I just find the outlook a lot brighter these days. The days of knowing the system is barren is over. Nothing was more fun than watching the kids come up in 94, 95, and 96 and then seeing them go from young role players on a championship team to the anchors of a dynasty. Then came the fall. Nothing was more disheartening than watching the yankees try to rely on the likes of Tim Redding, Darrell May, and Sean Henn as the best our farm could offer as MLB talent after Wang in 05. I am sure you felt the same way last yr. Knowing that after Lester, the cupboard was bare for at least 2 levels of the minors, it was actually 3 levels at the time. That hurts, that sucks. That means that you have no safety net and you need to get lucky like the yanks did in 05 with Small and Chacon being our best pitchers. Yes, lucky. We should not have made the playoffs that yr, let alone won the division.

Now we have one of the best farm systems in baseball. After the Sheff trade, we were rated #6 in all of baseball. After the RJ deal, we are likely in the top 5. We didnt trade away anybody that was integral to next yrs success either. We traded our injured, old, and overpaid #4/5, a player without a position, and a player we were going to buyout anyway and reloaded our system with MLB ready pitching talent. That means, gone are the days of seeing a MLB journeyman take the reigns when the plans fail. Gone are the days of 30 yr old rookies hitting the bigs on our team and watching with empty optimism as they spit the bit. Here are the days of deep systems, tons of pitching talent, and development. Its the way it had been before George fucked us. Something that yankee fans have heard the sox fans tell them, and outwardly denied while inwardly agreed completely.

The biggest problem for the yankees in today's game is that you cannot buy pitching like you used to. You either develop it, or trade for it. Nowadays, the only guys who hit the FA market are either past their prime, or not top of the line. The best young pitchers are locked up even by the cheapest of franchises or dealt to the teams with deep talent. We had to settle for the Pavano's, Wright's, Chacon's of the world while other team's developed the talent. Well now we have 5 options, 7 if you count the two guys who made the team last yr, as pitchers for our future, all of which have the MLB debut date of being 2007 (and that doesnt count Wang or Igawa). The future as either pitchers on our team or bait for others. That is nice. We finally are doing what Stick Michael told us we should be doing.

Are we taking a step back in 07? I dont think the trades we have made in 07 are setting us back as much as the fact that we dont have a lights out staff to begin with. We'll hit. The bullpen will be fine. The rotation doesnt have one guy who I look at as a prototypical ace. Wang is a quirky styled ace pitcher, but a guy who really is a 2/3. Mussina and Pettitte are nice #2/3 pitchers. Igawa a slotted 4 and Pavano a pussy. Johnson does nothing to make that better. Adding Clemens will add another guy who in the AL would be in the 2/3 category. Its a nice rotation, one with limited ability to fail, and limited ability to surge past expectations. Its a rotation you could certainly win with. It isnt going to be the anchor of a team. It wont drag a team down either.

Overall, I think the team has the makings to be very good in 07. They will make the playoffs and likely win the division by a good margin. But they arent a team built like your prototypical playoff team. So we'll see. But for once, I wont have to look at this yr and say, is this when it all ends? After this season, will we become the SF Giants, a team without a future? No, our farm is loaded with pitching, the one thing we couldnt buy. That should make all the difference.

[BSN07]

NYY rotation is looking like St. Louis's of 04. No apperent ace, filled with 2,3's.

I think both our teams have made moves for the now and the future, both teams have set themselves up nicely to be teams of top tier quality in there league for years to come.

A700 had it kind of right with the dismantling idea, except that its not going to happen all this year, for the next couple of years I see the NYY trading more of its older players/worthless contract guys for minor leaguers or not renewing there contracts, 2yrs from now there probably will be no Pettite,Moose,Posada,Abreu,Mo(retire),Williams(may be gone this yr), the NYY will look like a far different team in the coming years, going with youth instead of over paid has beens or nobodys. Its boarderline rebuilding, but NYY has enough talent in the rest of its players to make the team a contender, as far as there lineup goes it brings them back towards the pack a little ways. But with AROD( if he doesnt opt out)Jeter, Giambi, Damon,Canu there line up will still be strong, and they will be able to get awy with having younger position players/starting pitchers, where as most teams don't have thta luxury.

[jacksonianmarch]

NYY rotation is looking like St. Louis's of 04. No apperent ace, filled with 2,3's.

I think both our teams have made moves for the now and the future, both teams have set themselves up nicely to be teams of top tier quality in there league for years to come.

A700 had it kind of right with the dismantling idea, except that its not going to happen all this year, for the next couple of years I see the NYY trading more of its older players/worthless contract guys for minor leaguers or not renewing there contracts, 2yrs from now there probably will be no Pettite,Moose,Posada,Abreu,Mo(retire),Williams(may be gone this yr), the NYY will look like a far different team in the coming years, going with youth instead of over paid has beens or nobodys. Its boarderline rebuilding, but NYY has enough talent in the rest of its players to make the team a contender, as far as there lineup goes it brings them back towards the pack a little ways. But with AROD( if he doesnt opt out)Jeter, Giambi, Damon,Canu there line up will still be strong, and they will be able to get awy with having younger position players/starting pitchers, where as most teams don't have thta luxury.


Good comparison, but to an AL version of such. That 04 rotation would get fucking mashed in the ALE (and did by the sox).

Overall, great post. I feel that the yankees have a complete team right now, but by no means are they as strong as they were years ago. But at the same time, they are filling the needs that cannot be filled externally with youth. We are reloading to coin a phrase used by one of my college coaches years back. The team will still be successful, while getting younger. And I also agree on the 2 yrs thing. Previously, the entire yankee roster was locked in 2 yrs out. Now, the guys under contract for 09 are as follows.

C- ??
1B- ??
2B- Cano
SS- Jeter
3B- ARod
LF- Matsui
CF- Damon
RF- Melky?

1- Wang
2- ?? - Hughes?
3- ?? - Sanchez?
4- Igawa
5- ?? - Clippard, Ohlendorf, Jackson, Chamberlain, Betances, Karstens, Rasner?

and none in the bullpen, although Mo has said he wants to open the new stadium, so that sounds like he will be here till it opens in 09. That breeds flexibility above. No more passing on the best possible FA because their slot is filled.

I also think the sox are breeding good things for the future. Matsuzaka and Papelbon should be nice additions to the rotation and if Beckett can figure it out, the sox might have something brewing.

[a700hitter]

I recall you calling RJ a BP pitcher last season 700. Why the change of heart? Now your glad hes gone.Yes, i am glad he's gone. No matter what I called him and no matter how much I enjoyed him having a bad season (for him), I never liked when he faced the Red Sox. If the surgery helps him rebound, I am glad we have seen the last of him in a Yankee uniform.

[a700hitter]

If we traded Andy Phillips for Albert Pujols and Chris Carpenter, he'd be telling us how integral to our plans Phillips was.No, I'd have a gun in my mouth. I can assure you of that. You can disagree with my opinion about your off-season moves, but don't treat me as some mindless anti-Yankee fan that finds fault with everything Yankee. I hate the Yankees, and I proudly admit that, but Alexander the Great, you have been on this site long enough to know that I have sung Cashman's praises on several occasions. I have gone so far as to say that he runs rings around Theo. I praised Cashman for his trade deadline deals in 2006, and I brutalized the Red Sox FO for throwing in the towel and making no moves. I also praised Cashman for "outmaneuvering" the Red Sox FO with Johnny Damon. I am still annoyed by that whole episode. My opinions in this regard have annoyed many of my brethren Red Sox fans on this site who challenged my opinions fiercely. At least two Red Sox fan posters encouraged me on several occasions to root for the Yankees since I admired the way they ran their team. You have just discredited yourself by accusing me of being a mindless Yankee contrarian. The other Sox fans on this site know that nothing is further from the truth. If you disagree with my opinion that the Yankees have accomplished very little this off-season, go right ahead, but back off your ridiculous assertion in your post.

[a700hitter]

On the same token, a700 has a similar passion for the Red Sox that I believe he lets get in the way of an objective opinion. As a general rule too, he has a mistrust of prospects and an overtrust of name brand guys. He'd trade Hughes in a second for Curt Schilling or Bartolo Colon because of what they've DONE, not necessarily what they CAN DO and that's fine and dandy in the short term, but not a strong long term plan.

a700-- I like your passion too, and I'm not trying to offend anyone, just stating things as I see them.I do like established players. There's no doubt about that. I hate when I read posts that think it is fine to let our stars walk for sandwich picks. I'd rather get a sandwich. At least I'd have something. Your assertion that I would trade Hughes for Colon or Schilling is an exaggeration. I wouldn't trade the top prospect in the organization for a 40 year old pitcher or a broken down pitcher with a surgically repaired shoulder. I might give up a basket of second tier guys in those deals, but not the blue-chippers. I would however give up a blue-chipper like Hughes plus a basket of second tier guys for Johan Santana. I'd do that in a heart beat, and I think Cashman and Theo also would do it. I usually advocate giving up our best prospects for young stars like Chad Cordero, not old guys. I'm on record as supporting a trade at last year's deadline that would have given up MDC, Lester, Hansen and Crisp for Oswalt-- a young stud.

My problem with the reluctance to trading Red Sox prospects is that I really think that the Red Sox organization has few, if any, true blue-chippers. I think they are mostly over-hyped, with the exception of Bard.

[jacksonianmarch]

I do like established players. There's no doubt about that. I hate when I read posts that think it is fine to let our stars walk for sandwich picks. I'd rather get a sandwich. At least I'd have something. Your assertion that I would trade Hughes for Colon or Schilling is an exaggeration. I wouldn't trade the top prospect in the organization for a 40 year old pitcher or a broken down pitcher with a surgically repaired shoulder. I might give up a basket of second tier guys in those deals, but not the blue-chippers. I would however give up a blue-chipper like Hughes plus a basket of second tier guys for Johan Santana. I'd do that in a heart beat, and I think Cashman and Theo also would do it. I usually advocate giving up our best prospects for young stars like Chad Cordero, not old guys. I'm on record as supporting a trade at last year's deadline that would have given up MDC, Lester, Hansen and Crisp for Oswalt-- a young stud.

My problem with the reluctance to trading Red Sox prospects is that I really think that the Red Sox organization has few, if any, true blue-chippers. I think they are mostly over-hyped, with the exception of Bard.

I will never accept letting a player who can help go for a draft pick. I just dont think that the trash we dealt away is worth what we got. We will not miss a beat without RJ, Wright, and Sheff. Now if we dealt Wang, Mussina, Jeter, etc, then I'd be fuckin pissed.

[a700hitter]

It's curious that you have elected to respond to my response to elsrbueno's post, but not to my response to your "Pujols" post.

[jacksonianmarch]

I do like established players. There's no doubt about that. I hate when I read posts that think it is fine to let our stars walk for sandwich picks. I'd rather get a sandwich. At least I'd have something. Your assertion that I would trade Hughes for Colon or Schilling is an exaggeration. I wouldn't trade the top prospect in the organization for a 40 year old pitcher or a broken down pitcher with a surgically repaired shoulder. I might give up a basket of second tier guys in those deals, but not the blue-chippers. I would however give up a blue-chipper like Hughes plus a basket of second tier guys for Johan Santana. I'd do that in a heart beat, and I think Cashman and Theo also would do it. I usually advocate giving up our best prospects for young stars like Chad Cordero, not old guys. I'm on record as supporting a trade at last year's deadline that would have given up MDC, Lester, Hansen and Crisp for Oswalt-- a young stud.

My problem with the reluctance to trading Red Sox prospects is that I really think that the Red Sox organization has few, if any, true blue-chippers. I think they are mostly over-hyped, with the exception of Bard.

Most players get drafted with hype, get forgotten about and resurface when they get to or above AA. When they get back above AA, they either develped warts in the lower levels or they gain momentum. Tons of prospects with hype flame out in the lower ranks. So once they get to the AA level, there is a relative feeling that they'll make it. If they do well in AA, then even average performance in AAA gives them a look. Guys like Bowden, Buchholz, and Bard will start the yr in A+ ball or even further down (in Bards case). They are the closest pitching prospects the sox have. Buchholz sounds like the real deal as a starter, but he has his doubters. Bowden seems to be defying logic as most scouting reports are mixed on him. Bard projects as a power reliever. Either way, if things go well, Buchholz and Bowden should hit AAA by the start of 2009, with a likely midseason callup. Bard, if he is kept as a starter, will have an ETA of 2010. If he is converted to a reliever, he might be up in 09 or sooner. Either way, the best pitching prospects in the sox system are 2+ years away.

The other guy to consider is Lester, but his stock has dropped, by minimal fault of his own. The lack of control and velocity was something to be concerned about, and he'll have to prove it was injury/cancer that made him look rather pedestrian. I for one hope John makes it back and becomes a good starter for the sox. Seems like a good kid, got some shit luck, and maybe he'll turn it around.

[jacksonianmarch]

No, I'd have a gun in my mouth. I can assure you of that. You can disagree with my opinion about your off-season moves, but don't treat me as some mindless anti-Yankee fan that finds fault with everything Yankee. I hate the Yankees, and I proudly admit that, but Alexander the Great, you have been on this site long enough to know that I have sung Cashman's praises on several occasions. I have gone so far as to say that he runs rings around Theo. I praised Cashman for his trade deadline deals in 2006, and I brutalized the Red Sox FO for throwing in the towel and making no moves. I also praised Cashman for "outmaneuvering" the Red Sox FO with Johnny Damon. I am still annoyed by that whole episode. My opinions in this regard have annoyed many of my brethren Red Sox fans on this site who challenged my opinions fiercely. At least two Red Sox fan posters encouraged me on several occasions to root for the Yankees since I admired the way they ran their team. You have just discredited yourself by accusing me of being a mindless Yankee contrarian. The other Sox fans on this site know that nothing is further from the truth. If you disagree with my opinion that the Yankees have accomplished very little this off-season, go right ahead, but back off your ridiculous assertion in your post.
cmon now 700. You're one of the only guys on at night. I find you a good poster, so dont worry about it. If you dont believe in stocking a farm system, then I cannot argue with you. If you do, then I dont get how you can mock the 3 deals we made, dealing 3 players for high end prospects and 2 major league relievers. We deal a guy we were throwing away, a guy who had no position, and a guy who may not throw over 120 innings this yr and his effectiveness would be shit in ALE.

[a700hitter]

cmon now 700. You're one of the only guys on at night. I find you a good poster, so dont worry about it. If you dont believe in stocking a farm system, then I cannot argue with you. If you do, then I dont get how you can mock the 3 deals we made, dealing 3 players for high end prospects and 2 major league relievers. We deal a guy we were throwing away, a guy who had no position, and a guy who may not throw over 120 innings this yr and his effectiveness would be shit in ALE.As I have posted previously, these moves may bear fruit in 2 or 4 years, but they are just not the types of moves that have made me envious in past years. I don't think they have improved their 2007 team. I think they would have been much more formidable in 2007 if they had kept Sheff and Johnson to go along with Pettitte and they went after Clemens.

[jacksonianmarch]

As I have posted previously, these moves may bear fruit in 2 or 4 years, but they are just not the types of moves that have made me envious in past years. I don't think they have improved their 2007 team. I think they would have been much more formidable in 2007 if they had kept Sheff and Johnson to go along with Pettitte and they went after Clemens.

You see, nabbing a player in single A may pay off in 2 or 4 yrs. Nabbing pitchers ticketed for AAA and expected to his the majors in the same yr acquired may help in 1-2 yrs or may help immediately in deals.

Also, I would take Igawa over RJ simply on durability and age alone. Sheffield had no position. Abreu is better and Sheff was horrible at 1b. RJ was the 4, would have ended the season as the 5 and likely would have been awful for the yr.

Overall, the moves did not make us better in 07 most likely, unless Sanchez comes up as a reliever first. But they didnt hurt us either. A 5ERA is easily replaceable.

[TheKilo]

I find it interesting you think Igawa can replace a healthy RJ.

[jacksonianmarch]

I find it interesting you think Igawa can replace a healthy RJ.

We dont have a healthy RJ. We wont have a healthy RJ. A healthy RJ was 5 years ago. This one is old, declining, and injured. Igawa can replace THAT one.

[a700hitter]

We dont have a healthy RJ. We wont have a healthy RJ. A healthy RJ was 5 years ago. This one is old, declining, and injured. Igawa can replace THAT one.Even in decline and injured, he put up 17 wins a year. Do you expect Igawa to replace that in 2007?

[CrespoBlows]

Even in decline and injured, he put up 17 wins a year. Do you expect Igawa to replace that in 2007?

Yes.

If Igawa gets Randy Johnson's run support numbers, and replicates his ERA, then absolutely.

[a700hitter]

Yes.

If Igawa gets Randy Johnson's run support numbers, and replicates his ERA, then absolutely.Not if he gets the run support on the wrong nights.

[CrespoBlows]

Not if he gets the run support on the wrong nights.

If Igawa gets 7.89 runs per game of support, he will, without a freaking doubt, win 17 games. (Unless he's hurt, and this assumes that he will replicate Johnson ERA of 5.00, which I think he will come pretty close to matching)

For him not to win 17 games, he'd have to pitch so badly in numerous games, that his ERA would probably be in the Kyle Snyder range.

Wins are a pretty poor measurement of a pitcher. I'd take the Unit because of his low WHIP, and high strikeout numbers. I think he's the better bet for 2007. If Johnson came back to New York, he could possibly win 20 games.

[a700hitter]

Wins are a pretty poor measurement of a pitcher. I'd take the Unit because of his low WHIP, and high strikeout numbers. I think he's the better bet for 2007. If Johnson came back to New York, he could possibly win 20 games.I agree with this, but I don't agree that Igawa will win 17 games in 2007. If he does, I will be very surprised.

[CrespoBlows]

I agree with this, but I don't agree that Igawa will win 17 games in 2007. If he does, I will be very surprised.

No, I don't think he will either. I'm assuming that he gets boatloads of runs to back his starts. With a weaker Yankee offense, Igawa is likely not to receive the backing of 20 runs a game, like Johnson had. My guess is, that Igawa is bumped for the rotation when the Yankees insert Phillip Hughes in there. (Him or Pavano, they both suck, so it doesn't really matter)

[riverside sluggers]

Either way, the best pitching prospects in the sox system are 2+ years away.

There's also this kid called Edgar Martinez, a converted catcher who looks like "El Guapo". he should be up mid-season to September (if not sooner). He's one of the expected callups (Ellsbury, Kottaras, Spann) I am waiting with great interest to see how they do up in the bigs

[jacksonianmarch]

There's also this kid called Edgar Martinez, a converted catcher who looks like "El Guapo". he should be up mid-season to September (if not sooner). He's one of the expected callups (Ellsbury, Kottaras, Spann) I am waiting with great interest to see how they do up in the bigs

I said their best pitching prospects. The sox top 50 comes out on Monday (I think) on scout.com, I'll let you know who they are.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yes.

If Igawa gets Randy Johnson's run support numbers, and replicates his ERA, then absolutely.

That is what I am saying. Igawa doesnt have Randy's upside. He doesnt have the snarling, coming right at ya type of upside that Randy has. But at 43, slider flat, fastball slow, coming off injury we have to be honest here. His upside is something we wouldnt even see until May and maybe once per month would he be vintage. The other times, he would suck anus.

[CrespoBlows]

That is what I am saying. Igawa doesnt have Randy's upside. He doesnt have the snarling, coming right at ya type of upside that Randy has. But at 43, slider flat, fastball slow, coming off injury we have to be honest here. His upside is something we wouldnt even see until May and maybe once per month would he be vintage. The other times, he would suck anus.

His perphial numbers are still there. His K/9 is still pretty high, his WHIP was pretty low. He just was really bad with runners in scoring position. If he gets a little luck his way, then he could be a good pitcher.

[jacksonianmarch]

His perphial numbers are still there. His K/9 is still pretty high, his WHIP was pretty low. He just was really bad with runners in scoring position. If he gets a little luck his way, then he could be a good pitcher.

but what are the chances that he improves while recovering from back surgery and being a yr older. He never adjusted to age, his body just happened to hold out longer than most. You can only power 2 pitches by people for so long. He should have taken a page out of Mussina's book and slowed down the slider, and maybe worked on the splitter that was actually pretty nice last yr, but he never used it.

[TheKilo]

but what are the chances that he improves while recovering from back surgery and being a yr older. He never adjusted to age, his body just happened to hold out longer than most. You can only power 2 pitches by people for so long. He should have taken a page out of Mussina's book and slowed down the slider, and maybe worked on the splitter that was actually pretty nice last yr, but he never used it.

If the peripherals are still there and he's going to be healthy off surgery, he'll be better than Igawa easily.

[jacksonianmarch]

If the peripherals are still there and he's going to be healthy off surgery, he'll be better than Igawa easily.

There is no guarantee he'd be healthy. His peripherals were declining as well. He had his lowest K/9, BB/9, K/BB in 8 years. I am one of those who believes that his numbers were artifically deflated in 05 and inflated in 06. I picture him as giving us 120 innings or so of 5ERA ball if he can play. That back is no joke, and it took him a LONG time to get back from his last one.

[a700hitter]

If the peripherals are still there and he's going to be healthy off surgery, he'll be better than Igawa easily.He'll be better than Igawa after he's dead for 10 years. Igawa shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Randy Johnson.

[jacksonianmarch]

we'll see 700. I find your newfound RJ optimism refreshing.

[a700hitter]

we'll see 700. I find your newfound RJ optimism refreshing.My gut reaction when Randy was obtained by the Yankees was that I was upset. My reaction when he left town for prospects was relief. These were my honest emotional reactions. Maybe one or more of these prospects will be good major leaguers in a couple of years... or maybe they'll just be 3 turkeys that will have been forgotten. Right now, I am glad that big ugly lefty is out of town.

BTW: Just because I revelled in his failures in pinstripes doesn't mean that I loved for that he was a Yankee. I also revel in ARod's failures, but I'd take him on the Sox for prospect (blue-chippers too) in a heart-beat.

[jacksonianmarch]

My gut reaction when Randy was obtained by the Yankees was that I was upset. My reaction when he left town for prospects was relief. These were my honest emotional reactions. Maybe one or more of these prospects will be good major leaguers in a couple of years... or maybe they'll just be 3 turkeys that will have been forgotten. Right now, I am glad that big ugly lefty is out of town.

BTW: Just because I revelled in his failures in pinstripes doesn't mean that I loved for that he was a Yankee. I also revel in ARod's failures, but I'd take him on the Sox for prospect (blue-chippers too) in a heart-beat.

I heard rumors of a Jered Weaver, Scott Shields, and Ervin Santana offer for ARod early in the yr, from the angels papers. Since then, though, nothing. I think it was more rumor and innuendo than actual offer.

[a700hitter]

I heard rumors of a Jered Weaver, Scott Shields, and Ervin Santana offer for ARod early in the yr, from the angels papers. Since then, though, nothing. I think it was more rumor and innuendo than actual offer.That's a lot of major league pitching to give up in one transaction. I could see Weaver or Santana and Shields and a prospect for ARod.

[CrespoBlows]

I don't get it, why would the Angels offer two established young pitchers, and an elite set-up man, for Rodriguez? There's no way in hell that deal was even discussed.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't get it, why would the Angels offer two established young pitchers, and an elite set-up man, for Rodriguez? There's no way in hell that deal was even discussed.

like I said. It was the only rumor making the rounds about a month and a half ago. I didnt really think it was worth posting cause I couldnt see it happen.