A Plea for Cashman

[jacksonianmarch]

Honestly, I am very concerned with what is going down in yankee land. This really does not look like our season. Our hitting sucks on days we need them and dominates on days we get a great pitching performance. Inconsistency and age are hurting us in all phases and the one air of invincibility that we have had for years finally looks human. But the word coming out of the Bronx is that this is Cashman's team and he will go down with the ship.


Lets wait a second here. The yankees are in the best LONG TERM shape they have been in since 1996. A pipeline of pitching unseen in these parts. How else can you parade a bunch of rookies up here and have some of them actually step up and give some big outings. But they are rookies and expecting them to be consistent or anchor a rotation off the bat is dumb. It wont happen. But considering the fact that 2 pitchers are currently on the major league roster (Hughes and Clippard) project to be starters long term on this team and another (Wang) is 26 yrs old, we have something to build on. Add to that the dominance that high end prospects like Kennedy, Chamberlain and Horne are having and the solid performance of Whelan and Britton in the minors and we have the makings of a young, powerful and very deep pitching staff. Then the biggest wild card of all being a few yrs off in Betances and you have a staff with depth, power, finesse and options. The hitting is further off (the DSL classes the last 2 yrs have been ridiculous and with Tabata and Montero the future is bright, but it will be a long time until they are ready). This is how a dynasty is reformed. Because hitters come and go. But pitching does not come cheap and is not even buyable at this point (sans Clemens). All I ask is that Cashman not take the fall for our team turning geriatric overnight. We knew this day would come. The day when the yankee grasp on the east and on the AL would end.

But even coming into this yr, I knew this would be a tenuous yr. Relying on the likes of Pavano as a 4 in your rotation is never a good bet. I had misplaced my trust in Igawa as well, who looks like he wont even get out of the minors, let alone get outs in the majors. But overall, this team has a future like no other. Hell, the guys down on the Tommy John list could be headliners on most teams prospect lists (JB Cox, Humberto Sanchez, Christian Garcia, and Mark Melancon). This is due to Cashman changing the buy old and sell low philosophy and if he is canned, we will reap the benefits of what he did while wondering why we canned the guy in 5 yrs. This isnt on him. This is partially on Torre, a good amount on Steinbrenner and mostly due to inevitability. It was a good run.

And with that, I concede the AL East. Congrats sox fans. You guys are unreal right now and my team no longer looks like a team primed for a breakout. They look old, something that does not typically right itself and leave you prone to long stretches of winning. I dont think we make the playoffs. Good day, and thank god I have a wonderful wife and a PS3!!

[TedWilliams101]

I'm not about to write off the yankees, but... thank you...?

[ORS]

Bad form, Jacko. Now you are lose-lose. If you are right, then the Yankees lose the East. If you are wrong, you have to take shit for giving up whenever you try and celebrate. Bad form.

[jacksonianmarch]

Bad form, Jacko. Now you are lose-lose. If you are right, then the Yankees lose the East. If you are wrong, you have to take shit for giving up whenever you try and celebrate. Bad form.

ORS, I am sticking to my guns. I said that we NEEDED to be in single digits when we finished our series with you guys. After tonight, we will be 11 games out in the loss column. We have one more against our nemesis. This team looks old ORS. I said before that they looked primed for a breakout. I was wrong. Like I said, I dont "think" they make the playoffs. But after tonight, I am pretty sure we arent winning the east. We get 8 strong from Wang and still dont win.

[riverside sluggers]

Didnt Detroit have a 12 game lead in May last year only to finish second? Im not close to writing off the Yankees

[Mr Crunchy]

mj
its 5/26 and as much as things are really going our way as God would want it i feel its too early to cash in the division and give up entirely as wild card teams are just as capable of winning in october as the team that wins 105 games.

that said the yanks staff is simply atrocious and the older guys like giambi damon and mussina are really showing wear from years of hi profile action.
the young arms arent going to be consistant enuff to put together a 15-3 run which is needed at this point and outside pettite the vets havent really got it done
wang has been decent but not the stopper
his #s are good but sometimes you need 10ks and 8 innings of 1 run ball
thats asking too much from a sinker ball pitcher,you gotta agree here

the only thing yanks fans need to worry about is the possible mortgaging of the future to get a few guys in for the run after the break
the clemens deal was silly in my opinion but he maybe able to be effective enuff to alleviate the tax on the bullpen and bring some much needed urgency to this club.
the w/card is a possibile option if they can play .600 ball
the division is unlikely unless the yanks own the sox in head to head meetings

its long time in coming man and theres no disgrace in giving up what youve essentially owned for 12 years
edwin moses lost a race after 8??years of being unbeaten
i saw hagler lose to leonard and buster douglas as a 38-1 dog ko tyson after nearly getting decapitated with an uppercut the round before
the canadiens team of the late 70s won 4 in a row and lost a 1st round series to the northstars i believe?? that ended their run
the celts lost game 6 at home in 85 against the lakers and i saw the road team celebrate in the garden right in front of red auerbach and under the banners.
shit happens
the only issue is how bad the pressure effects cashman and the other powers that be..
they should think of 08 and let 07 play out as is

[a700hitter]

Didnt Detroit have a 12 game lead in May last year only to finish second? Im not close to writing off the YankeesUnlike the 2006 Tigers, inexperience will not cost these Red Sox. Injuries are what could derail their train.

[CrespoBlows]

Unlike the 2006 Tigers, inexperience will not cost these Red Sox. Injuries are what could derail their train.

That, plus the Yankees don't have anything close that resembles the Liriano/Santana monster.

[jacksonianmarch]

mj
its 5/26 and as much as things are really going our way as God would want it i feel its too early to cash in the division and give up entirely as wild card teams are just as capable of winning in october as the team that wins 105 games.

that said the yanks staff is simply atrocious and the older guys like giambi damon and mussina are really showing wear from years of hi profile action.
the young arms arent going to be consistant enuff to put together a 15-3 run which is needed at this point and outside pettite the vets havent really got it done
wang has been decent but not the stopper
his #s are good but sometimes you need 10ks and 8 innings of 1 run ball
thats asking too much from a sinker ball pitcher,you gotta agree here

the only thing yanks fans need to worry about is the possible mortgaging of the future to get a few guys in for the run after the break
the clemens deal was silly in my opinion but he maybe able to be effective enuff to alleviate the tax on the bullpen and bring some much needed urgency to this club.
the w/card is a possibile option if they can play .600 ball
the division is unlikely unless the yanks own the sox in head to head meetings

its long time in coming man and theres no disgrace in giving up what youve essentially owned for 12 years
edwin moses lost a race after 8??years of being unbeaten
i saw hagler lose to leonard and buster douglas as a 38-1 dog ko tyson after nearly getting decapitated with an uppercut the round before
the canadiens team of the late 70s won 4 in a row and lost a 1st round series to the northstars i believe?? that ended their run
the celts lost game 6 at home in 85 against the lakers and i saw the road team celebrate in the garden right in front of red auerbach and under the banners.
shit happens
the only issue is how bad the pressure effects cashman and the other powers that be..
they should think of 08 and let 07 play out as is

The bolded part is a major issue. I love Hughes and Clippard as guys in the rotation right now. No doubt. But they arent the kind of guys who can give you a QS every time out. They are rookies. Rookies are inconsistent. One night, lights out, next night blown out. And with the offense looking geriatric, we dont have the ability to shrug off early deficits. We need guys who can go to the matt and win one that they shouldnt have. Win a game with pitching instead of decent pitching and awesome offense. Either way, the team looks old, slow, and sick. The bats remind me of Varitek's from last yr. Dragging through the zone, topping everything, taking good pitches, flailing at bad ones. It is very shitty.

I know people like to use 05 as an example, but the sox 05 was not all that good. This sox team is loaded and will not fall into the long slumps that we will need to catch you guys. Either way, Crunch is spot on. I think Cashman looked at this team as good enough to contend in 07 but very solid in 08 and beyond in terms of pitching. Dont blow up the plan for one season.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Personally my biggest problem has been with guys like Abreu, Cano(He has been hitting well on the homestand), Damon and Giambi. These guys are supposed to be hitting and taking pressure of the pitching. The offense which was supposed to be a given has been inconsistant and sometimes flat out terrible.

On another note I think Mussina is done. You might get a solid start here and there but hes done being Mr. 15 wins per year.

[riverside sluggers]

Damon's defense has also taken a nosedive from last year. Eventually playing through his injuries was going to bite him on the ass. He should suck it up and go on the DL before it becomes something serious

[BoSox21]

wow, Jacko doing his best Gom impression

[ORS]

Hey, my brother and I will have a coupl of bowls of split-plea soup.

http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/sbr_078MoranisThomas.jpg

Kooooo Lookookoo koo koo koo kooo

[TheKilo]

Honestly, I am very concerned with what is going down in yankee land. This really does not look like our season. Our hitting sucks on days we need them and dominates on days we get a great pitching performance.

I was listening to the biggest homer outside of Chicago yesterday afternoon call the Yankee game. I had never in my life heard John Sterling have so much negativity directed at the New York Yankees. I twas really something to behold. He continues to harp on one particular statement.

"The hallmark of bad teams is they hit when they don't pitch and they pitch when they don't hit."

And that pretty much has encapsulated the Yankees season.


Inconsistency and age are hurting us in all phases and the one air of invincibility that we have had for years finally looks human. But the word coming out of the Bronx is that this is Cashman's team and he will go down with the ship.

Age is the big factor. Damon looks like he needs a walker out there, and Abreu has been god-awful. These guys aren't getting any younger. Who's the next position player the Yanks have waiting in the wings? Tabata? He's 2+ years away at best. Your pitching may be "stacked" for the future, but honestly outside of Wang and to a lesser extent Hughes, no one has really proven themselves.



Lets wait a second here. The yankees are in the best LONG TERM shape they have been in since 1996. A pipeline of pitching unseen in these parts. How else can you parade a bunch of rookies up here and have some of them actually step up and give some big outings. But they are rookies and expecting them to be consistent or anchor a rotation off the bat is dumb. It wont happen. But considering the fact that 2 pitchers are currently on the major league roster (Hughes and Clippard) project to be starters long term on this team and another (Wang) is 26 yrs old, we have something to build on. Add to that the dominance that high end prospects like Kennedy, Chamberlain and Horne are having and the solid performance of Whelan and Britton in the minors and we have the makings of a young, powerful and very deep pitching staff. Then the biggest wild card of all being a few yrs off in Betances and you have a staff with depth, power, finesse and options.

I think you overvalue your prospects highly. That's not to say some couldn't be successful, but it's highly unlikely all will have sustained big league success.


The hitting is further off (the DSL classes the last 2 yrs have been ridiculous and with Tabata and Montero the future is bright, but it will be a long time until they are ready). This is how a dynasty is reformed. Because hitters come and go.

With increased revenue sharing it's going to be increasingly difficult to pluck FA's away from teams. Therefore, in order to make your lineup better you're going to have to part with some of your precious young pitching.


But pitching does not come cheap and is not even buyable at this point (sans Clemens). All I ask is that Cashman not take the fall for our team turning geriatric overnight. We knew this day would come. The day when the yankee grasp on the east and on the AL would end.

It's funny you mention Clemens in this part. Is Clemens's signing not the ultimate GFIN move? He's the one that was to be the savior of the Yankees season, to stabilize the rotation. It doesn't make sense to call it a rebuilding year if you throw a pro-rated $28 million at a soon to be 45 year old pitcher. Besides, you don't think the Boss wants to win it now? You don't think he'll sit idly by and watch the team go down, do you?

Fact is this second part is such a bunch of bullshit that I don't even want to think about it. All offseason long you said how much of a juggernaut the Yankees were. Look, a team is never as good as they look when they're playing great and never as bad as they look when things are going bad. Do I think the division race is over? No. 12.5 games over 4 months can be made up easily. It's tough sure but it is in no way over.


But even coming into this yr, I knew this would be a tenuous yr.

Bullshit.


Relying on the likes of Pavano as a 4 in your rotation is never a good bet.

Duh?


I had misplaced my trust in Igawa as well, who looks like he wont even get out of the minors, let alone get outs in the majors.

Again, duh? There's a reason Dice-K was so sought after and Igawa wasn't.


But overall, this team has a future like no other.

I would argue the Red Sox have just as bright a future.


Hell, the guys down on the Tommy John list could be headliners on most teams prospect lists (JB Cox, Humberto Sanchez, Christian Garcia, and Mark Melancon). This is due to Cashman changing the buy old and sell low philosophy and if he is canned, we will reap the benefits of what he did while wondering why we canned the guy in 5 yrs. This isnt on him. This is partially on Torre, a good amount on Steinbrenner and mostly due to inevitability. It was a good run.

This is on the players and Cashman. Look, his team is not deep. That's his fault. The bullpen sucks. That's his fault. He traded away Sheffield (a RH power bat) and Johnson (an innings eater in the AL who you could count on for 14 wins), which are arguably the two things New York needs most right now. He basically fields a team that has 5 DHs in Damon, Giambi, Abreu, Matsui, and Cano.

This is on the players because they have absolutely blown ass to this point. Really, the only ones who have contributed consistently are Jeter, Posada, and Bruney, and Pettite.


And with that, I concede the AL East. Congrats sox fans. You guys are unreal right now and my team no longer looks like a team primed for a breakout. They look old, something that does not typically right itself and leave you prone to long stretches of winning. I dont think we make the playoffs. Good day, and thank god I have a wonderful wife and a PS3!!

Shit eating motherfucker.

[BSN07]

Jacko you better hope Cashman doesn't take the fall. Whoever comes in will be answering to old Stiny again and you know how he is, all those prospects that Cashman has gotten for you guys could head out of town to bring in more over priced ML players. Stiny can destroy what Cashman has accomplished in about one weekend if given the chance.

[BSN07]

Hughes, Desalvo and Tabata for Todd Helton.......hahahahaha..... That would be a Stiny special!

[jacksonianmarch]

Kilo,

Obviously I am a homer, and that is not to be forgotten. But looking at the yankee minor leagues and then seeing what is said about their kids, you have to see how stacked the pitching is. And this isnt just because of the personell, but on the depth of the personell. If a few guys fail, then more than a few are there to step up. That is the hallmark of a good minor league system. In the past, we always had one or two hot rookies coming up, one would fail, one would get traded and we'd be running the same bullshit out there day after day. Now, we have a pitching system that is really good, and it is on Cashman for that. Just look at what you have seen thus far.

Guys with MLB debuts this or last yr...

Karstens- fringe rotation guy who when he is right will throw strikes. Likely a long reliever or an NL 4 or 5 starter

Rasner- fringe rotation guy who can throw strikes and has had success to this point. Likely a long reliever or NL 4 or 5 starter.

Wright- if he can throw strikes in the bigs like he has in the minors, he has a future in the back end of the rotation.

Hughes- ace potential.

Clippard- middle of the rotation potential

DeSalvo- likely reliever or NL starter.

So just the past 100 or so games, 6 guys have come up. 1 with ace potential, 1 with middle of the rotation potential, and 4 fringe guys. All 4 have had at least one successful start and have shown flashes of being solid.

But look at what is coming down the pipeline...

AAA-
Steven White- Mid-rotation starter if he can ever stay healthy
Ross Ohlendorf- Mid-rotation starter or setup man if he can stay healthy
Humberto Sanchez- out with TJ surgery, but will be a setup man/closer next season
JB Cox- setup man of the future, out with elbow surgery (not TJ)
Chris Britton- strong season in the majors last yr, dominating in the minors. Relief power arm.

AA-
Jeff Marquez- Middle of the rotation potential, dominating AA
Alan Horne- Ace potential, dominating AA
Kevin Whelan- closer potential, recently converted to pitcher (3 yrs ago), still has control issues, but is dominating AA

A+-
Ian Kennedy- dominating A+ ball ridiculously, mid rotation potential
Joba Chamberlain- ace potential
George Kontos- dominating A+ ball, mid rotation potential
McCutchen- dominating A+ ball, back end potential, possible reliever
Mark Melancon- TJ surgery, closer potential if he gets healthy
Christian Garcia- mid rotation potential, TJ surgery
Claggett- relief potential, throw in in the Sheff trade

A-
Ivan Nova- too early to tell, but has been hyped in the scouting circles.
Robertson- signed way over slot to come out of college, closer potential, DOMINATING ridiculously, needs to move up.
Norton- old for the league, last yrs draft pick, likely a reliever

Then you have McCallister and Betances in EXT St who both have very high potentials, Betances' potential is the highest in the entire minor leagues in some sites opinions. And then there are the DSL guys who all have very high ratings coming out of the DSL as 16 and 17 yr olds on 2 DSL leagues that dominated. The yankee DSL teams the past 2 yrs have been near the top or won the championship.

So it isnt that our minor league pitching is one or two stars and then a bunch of non-prospects. We have 3 or 4 high end prospects and then a bunch of middle tier prospects and they are all approaching the bigs without much hundrance. This is all on Cashman and Oppenheimer. They drafted and traded very well to build up a lot of arms for future deals and future in this organization.

Now dont think I am so naive to think that all of these guys will fill their potential. Chances are 70% of them wont make it or will be nothing more than a cup of tea guys. But the high quantity makes it very likely that we could rebuild a quality rotation from within.