Yankee offense: worst start in 10 yrs - Page 7 - Talksox

26 to 6 · 04-19-2008, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayhawk Bill

Limiting discussion to the twenty pitchers BP PECOTA considers most comparable to Phil Hughes at his age entering 2008, Bob Moose, Gary Nolan, Jim Palmer, Storm Davis, Bill Gullickson, Carlos Zambrano, Britt Burns, Dennis Eckersley and Don Drysdale made it to age 25 without any big setbacks, IMO. The other eleven did have struggles, IMO...that's about a 50-50 mix.

Hughes is struggling in 2008. It's early, but it's tough completely turning around an 0-3 record with an 8.82 ERA in one's first four starts. I'd be a little less critical than Gom here, but I'm I lot less confident than you're being, 26 to 6. Hughes isn't panning out the way many successful first-round highly touted picks do...at least not yet.

You can't look at what he's done this year and ignore how well he did last year, especially in his 2 starts before his injury. And he was pretty good when he came back. I understand what you're saying, but it's too early to say one way or the other regarding Phil. But again, it's not fair to get down on him for his struggles thus far and completely disregard how well he pitched last year when he came up. We need more time before we can get on him like that.

a700hitter · 04-19-2008, 04:47 PM

Maybe they will be good, but as they go through their growing pains your season will go down the toilet. You don't have enough consistent veteran's to take up the slack.

26 to 6 · 04-19-2008, 05:26 PM

Can't disagree one bit. But hopefully people start to get their shit together. Hopefully Hughes can start being effective, Moose can maybe do something useful (I dont care if he helps Robby Cucuzza wash jerseys, as long as he does SOMETHING useful), and everyone can be consistent. Like you said, we really can't afford this.

TheKilo · 04-19-2008, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

the franchise looked good today. Probably shouldnt have been brought out for the 6th. Too many deep counts early on.

Wait, aren't you the same guy who killed Torre for burning his pen?

Fact is, when your starters give you 6 innings in two games, someone needed to bite the bullet last night. Although I don't think bringing out a guy who's cruising and under 100 pitches out for the 6th as "biting the bullet".

a700hitter · 04-20-2008, 01:33 AM

Kennedy, the other rookie prodigy starting pitcher for the Yankees took his turn at shitting the bed tonight. He wasn't able to get out of the 3rd inning and his ERA is 9.64. He and Hughes are a formidable 1-2 punch.

jacksonianmarch · 04-20-2008, 09:48 AM

Kennedy needs to be demoted IMO. Much different case than Hughes. Hughes needs to learn the league IMO. He needs to learn which guys he can go right after and which guys his stuff forces him to be careful with. He needs to learn that a 1 pitch groundout is more effective than a 8 pitch strikeout. Stuff like that. The Baltimore game just proved the point further. Too many deep counts against a Baltimore lineup that isnt very good.

For Kennedy, he is not a power type pitcher. He wont consistently throw the ball 92+ like Hughes can (and did in Baltimore). He doesnt have the Hughes curveball either. he's a finesse, location guy and this is what made him so effective in his 5 level jump last yr. 13BB in 14IP shows that something is wrong. Is it mechanical? Is he hurt? Has he lost his confidence? Whatever it is, I'd ship him to AAA and see how he fares. Right now, Igawa is throwing better.

SchillingIsTheNatural · 04-20-2008, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Kennedy needs to be demoted IMO. Much different case than Hughes. Hughes needs to learn the league IMO. He needs to learn which guys he can go right after and which guys his stuff forces him to be careful with. He needs to learn that a 1 pitch groundout is more effective than a 8 pitch strikeout. Stuff like that. The Baltimore game just proved the point further. Too many deep counts against a Baltimore lineup that isnt very good.

Honestly I think Phil Hughes should be in AAA or AA working on developing a better changeup. The fastball and curve are just fine but he doesn't have that 95-98mph fastball so he needs another pitch. It's hard to be a 2-pitch starter in the majors. Big league hitters figure you out...not the other way around.

jacksonianmarch · 04-20-2008, 10:28 AM

He's been throwing the slider more than the changeup and I agree, he needs to use the changeup more. I like his changeup. Whether it isnt getting called or he doesnt have confidence in it or whatever, it needs to be thrown.

Jayhawk Bill · 04-20-2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Kennedy needs to be demoted IMO. Much different case than Hughes. Hughes needs to learn the league IMO. He needs to learn which guys he can go right after and which guys his stuff forces him to be careful with. He needs to learn that a 1 pitch groundout is more effective than a 8 pitch strikeout. Stuff like that. The Baltimore game just proved the point further. Too many deep counts against a Baltimore lineup that isnt very good.

For Kennedy, he is not a power type pitcher. He wont consistently throw the ball 92+ like Hughes can (and did in Baltimore). He doesnt have the Hughes curveball either. he's a finesse, location guy and this is what made him so effective in his 5 level jump last yr. 13BB in 14IP shows that something is wrong. Is it mechanical? Is he hurt? Has he lost his confidence? Whatever it is, I'd ship him to AAA and see how he fares. Right now, Igawa is throwing better.

I think that word got back to MLB that folks* were watching their umpires award Kennedy strike calls on pitches that should've been balls that were called balls for the opposing team's pitchers. Pitch f/x allows such analysis. Kennedy was getting a couple of runs shaved off his ERA last year through favorable pitch calling, and this year he's not getting those calls. Accordingly, it's now evident that he sucks.

* "Folks" may possibly include the author of this post.

jacksonianmarch · 04-20-2008, 03:07 PM

he had 3 starts last yr. You cannot tell me that you have pitch fx from the minors. And it isnt the fact that he isnt getting the close call. Its the fact that he isnt even close.

TheKilo · 04-20-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Kennedy needs to be demoted IMO. Much different case than Hughes. Hughes needs to learn the league IMO. He needs to learn which guys he can go right after and which guys his stuff forces him to be careful with. He needs to learn that a 1 pitch groundout is more effective than a 8 pitch strikeout. Stuff like that. The Baltimore game just proved the point further. Too many deep counts against a Baltimore lineup that isnt very good.

For Kennedy, he is not a power type pitcher. He wont consistently throw the ball 92+ like Hughes can (and did in Baltimore). He doesnt have the Hughes curveball either. he's a finesse, location guy and this is what made him so effective in his 5 level jump last yr. 13BB in 14IP shows that something is wrong. Is it mechanical? Is he hurt? Has he lost his confidence? Whatever it is, I'd ship him to AAA and see how he fares. Right now, Igawa is throwing better.

LOL @ WANTING IGAWA OVER KENNEDY

26 to 6 · 04-20-2008, 09:53 PM

Tell me about it, sounds outrageous. As ludicrous as it sounds, at this point it may be the best thing. Kennedy needs to be in AAA, and I've said that all offseason, he's just not ready. He needs to get his work in down there. Although he was good last season when he made the jump, he needs more than 32.2 AAA innings to get acclimated to better hitters than those he was facing from college to AA throughout his career. Given how good Igawa has been so far in Scranton this year, allowing only 4 walks and 1 homer in 21.2 innings with a 2.49 ERA, and given the fact that he has it in him to be a big-time pitcher, being that he was a premier pitcher with Hanshin, even winning an MVP; he deserves a chance to give it another shot. I know he was horrific last year, but that was, IMO like I said all season, just a chance to get his feet wet and get acclimated to the big-league style of baseball. Perhaps second time round will be better. Thats not to say he's going to be the savior and pitch lights out, because who knows, but maybe he can perform sufficiently. I don't see it happening now, but maybe after another 2 or 3 unsuccessful starts from Kennedy, Ca$h and Joe will consider making a move. Possibly even sooner if Igawa continues to impress in his next start or 2.

TheKilo · 04-20-2008, 11:29 PM

Dude, Yankee fans are pining for Kei Igawa. End of story.

26 to 6 · 04-20-2008, 11:53 PM

Yo why are you being so ignorant? What do you expect us to do, just say "gee, let's let IPK just keep at it." When a player isn't adequately performing, you need to look to an alternative. Igawa's the best thing we have right now, what are we supposed to do? We pinned our hopes on Aaron Small and Shawn Chacon in 2005 and look what happened. You have to work with what you have, and all things willing it might work out. If it doesn't we move on to the next option. I'm glad it amuses you though.

Mr Crunchy · 04-21-2008, 09:15 AM

i remember last year igawa made his debut either against boston or in the big show against someone else
our man jackson was dictating how igawa had a 4 pitch selection of weapons and he was going to pitch 200 innings and what balance he had etc.....
by the 3rd inning we get
""THIS GUY SUCKS
another wondeful moment in redsox chat room history
the fact is neither of these guys is going to be dependable this year although igawa may give you more shitty innings