Hank: Joba needs to start now

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk Bill

Girardi will be fired unless he wins, and he may be fired regardless. He was fired in Florida for badmouthing his front office in public, despite his amazing ability to pull wins out of thin air.

BTW, has anybody else noticed that the Yankees really suck but that they're still only 3.5 games back of Boston? Despite most of the team's mediocrity, Girardi has the Yankees at .500 in the AL East, a division significantly tougher than the 2006 NL East. He may not kiss up to his boss well, but Girardi sure knows how to manage.

I disagree. I think Girardi is a dope. He had some pretty good young players on Fla.--- Hanley Ramirez, Uggla, Miggy Cabrera. He was no miracle worker.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

What kind of past injuries has Joba had? Did they come when he was a starter?

[TheKilo]

Being 3.5 games down 21/20 games in is pretty bad.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by TheKilo

Being 3.5 games down 21/20 games in is pretty bad.

What!? Season is long my friend. That's why they play 162. People are already projecting the demise of the Yankees, but we aren't even a month in! This happens every year with at least a few teams. It's rather humorous.

[schillingouttheks]

Knowing him, he was being sarcastic.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

I disagree. I think Girardi is a dope. He had some pretty good young players on Fla.--- Hanley Ramirez, Uggla, Miggy Cabrera. He was no miracle worker.

For what reason is Girardi a dope? He's a very smart baseball man and knows his stuff. He managed well in Florida, yes with some good young players, but they were all inexperienced. Listening to broadcasts that he worked back in '04 and last year were very enlightening. You could tell he knew the game very well and would make an excellent manager. Plenty of times you've called Girardi dope and questioned his abilities, but on what grounds? I'm not shooting your opinion down, I just want you to explain it a little.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by schillingouttheks

Knowing him, he was being sarcastic.

oh...woops!

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by 26 to 6

For what reason is Girardi a dope? He's a very smart baseball man and knows his stuff. He managed well in Florida, yes with some good young players, but they were all inexperienced. Listening to broadcasts that he worked back in '04 and last year were very enlightening. You could tell he knew the game very well and would make an excellent manager. Plenty of times you've called Girardi dope and questioned his abilities, but on what grounds? I'm not shooting your opinion down, I just want you to explain it a little.

It's a lot of little things. A couple would be his opening day lineup with Matsui batting 8th. That's just ridiculous, especially when you have that bloated pig Giambi batting 5th. His game managing in that KC game where he started Bruney due to the threatening weather. His use of his pitchers was just dumb. He'll be run out of town within two years.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

It's a lot of little things. A couple would be his opening day lineup with Matsui batting 8th. That's just ridiculous, especially when you have that bloated pig Giambi batting 5th. His game managing in that KC game where he started Bruney due to the threatening weather. His use of his pitchers was just dumb. He'll be run out of town within two years.

Personally, I thought it was clever what he did with Bruney. It was a just in case kind of move. If there was a lengthy delay and ti served it's purpose I don't think people would be so critical of it. I thought it was progressive. When you have a young pitcher, and a bullpen that before the 8th inning isn't solid, you have to try things like that. I liked the effort. I can buy your other points, although I can't get too worked up with Giambi batting 5th on opening day. Sometimes reputation and the salary you get payed dictate the way you're used, and on opening day you give him the benefit of the doubt. Now, if he were still batting 5th I would take serious exception with his decision, but he isn't. I do think he needs to cut down on Giambi's playing time a little, but whatever. Hey, maybe you're right. Maybe he doesnt make it beyond 2009, but I don't think it's fair to lynch him just a month into his Yankee tenure. Especially when in his rookie season as a manager he won Manager of the Year. I suppose only time will tell.

But hey, if thing's don't work out for him as a manager, he has a career in broadcasting. I thought he did fantastic analytical work.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by 26 to 6

Personally, I thought it was clever what he did with Bruney. It was a just in case kind of move. If there was a lengthy delay and ti served it's purpose I don't think people would be so critical of it. I thought it was progressive. When you have a young pitcher, and a bullpen that before the 8th inning isn't solid, you have to try things like that. I liked the effort. I can buy your other points, although I can't get too worked up with Giambi batting 5th on opening day. Sometimes reputation and the salary you get payed dictate the way you're used, and on opening day you give him the benefit of the doubt. Now, if he were still batting 5th I would take serious exception with his decision, but he isn't. I do think he needs to cut down on Giambi's playing time a little, but whatever. Hey, maybe you're right. Maybe he doesnt make it beyond 2009, but I don't think it's fair to lynch him just a month into his Yankee tenure. Especially when in his rookie season as a manager he won Manager of the Year. I suppose only time will tell.

But hey, if thing's don't work out for him as a manager, he has a career in broadcasting. I thought he did fantastic analytical work.

I didn't have a problem with him starting Bruney, but with him using Kennedy in relief after he let Farnsworth mess up the game. If he was going to use Kennedy, he should've used him after Bruney.

As for his analysis as a broadcaster, I was not impressed. He went on and on about Manny not running out a ball that looked like a HR in Cleveland, but Manny only got to 1B. The announcers got on him when he did it and rightly so. In the end his failure to run didn't cost the Red Sox, and in fact his hit drove in the winning run of the game. Girardi's post game analysis should have focused on how the Red Sox won the game, but instead he raved and ranted about something that had no impact upon the outcome of the game. He never once mentioned that manny drove in the game winner.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

I didn't have a problem with him starting Bruney, but with him using Kennedy in relief after he let Farnsworth mess up the game. If he was going to use Kennedy, he should've used him after Bruney.

Can't disagree with you there. Forgot about that. Absolutely!

As for his analysis as a broadcaster, I was not impressed. He went on and on about Manny not running out a ball that looked like a HR in Cleveland, but Manny only got to 1B. The announcers got on him when he did it and rightly so. In the end his failure to run didn't cost the Red Sox, and in fact his hit drove in the winning run of the game. Girardi's post game analysis should have focused on how the Red Sox won the game, but instead he raved and ranted about something that had no impact upon the outcome of the game. He never once mentioned that manny drove in the game winner.

Was this during a Fox game that he did? Otherwise why would he be calling a Sox game in Cleveland? I always enjoyed listening to him on YES. Either way, that's one game. Not much of a barometer. I'm sure that's not the only basis for your opinion, but I can't help but disagree overall. I'm not saying he was perfect all the time, but considering he has limited experience in the booth, I think he did pretty well when up there. Whatever though, agree to disagree.

[a700hitter]

In the end, it will be the Yankee fans who be most vocal about running him out of town. I couldn't care less if he stays or not.

[a700hitter]

Joba is coming in with one out and bases loaded in the 7th inning in Chicago. Traber and Bruney looked like shit. Bruney didn't cover first base on a ball to the right side. I wonder if Girardi will chew him out for no hustling. He's no Manny and Girardi jumped all over him as a commentator.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

I disagree. I think Girardi is a dope. He had some pretty good young players on Fla.--- Hanley Ramirez, Uggla, Miggy Cabrera. He was no miracle worker.

Cheez, I dunno.

In 2005, the Marlins went 83-79 under Jack McKeon, a good manager. After that year, they traded away or let go two extraordinarily good pitchers (AJ Burnett and Josh Beckett), their closer (Todd Jones, 2.10 ERA, 40 saves), their set-up man (Guillermo Mota), their All Star catcher (Paul Lo Duca), their MVP candidate (Carlos Delgado, 6th that year), their MVP candidates the two previous years (Juan Pierre and Mike Lowell), their All Star second baseman (Luis Castillo) and, FWIW, two of their three other starting position players (Juan Encarnacion and Alex Gonzalez). They invested nothing in free agents to fill the vacuum: Brian Moehler was the second-highest-paid player on the 2006 roster at $1.5 million.

Let's Check WARP1:

Beckett: 6.7
Burnett 6.0
Castillo 5.2
Delgado 7.4
Encarnacion 3.5
Gonzalez 1.6
Jones 7.1
Lowell 2.4
Mota 1.3
Pierre 2.8

Total 45.0 wins

Despite losing the 45-odd wins represented by the players I listed above, Joe Girardi came in and, in his rookie year as a manager, he brought the Marlins to a 78-84 record, second only to the 97-win Mets in the NL East as late as September 12th, only five games back of the 2005 team which had fifteen million-dollar-salary players despite having only two million-dollar players left.

I remain impressed with Girardi's 2006 results, and I see nothing in his 2008 record thus far to convince me that he's not an excellent manager. Of course, YMMV.

Edit: Left off Lo Duca...heck, you get the point.

[a700hitter]

Joba k's Quentin on a checked swing, but he walks in a run by walking Crede.