Hank: Joba needs to start now

[VA Sox Fan]

Not a fan of Hawk Harrelson as an announcer. Go White Sox though.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk Bill

Cheez, I dunno.

In 2005, the Marlins went 83-79 under Jack McKeon, a good manager. After that year, they traded away or let go two extraordinarily good pitchers (AJ Burnett and Josh Beckett), their closer (Todd Jones, 2.10 ERA, 40 saves), their set-up man (Guillermo Mota), their All Star catcher (Paul Lo Duca), their MVP candidate (Carlos Delgado, 6th that year), their MVP candidates the two previous years (Juan Pierre and Mike Lowell), their All Star second baseman (Luis Castillo) and, FWIW, two of their three other starting position players (Juan Encarnacion and Alex Gonzalez). They invested nothing in free agents to fill the vacuum: Brian Moehler was the second-highest-paid player on the 2006 roster at $1.5 million.

Let's Check WARP1:

Beckett: 6.7
Burnett 6.0
Castillo 5.2
Delgado 7.4
Encarnacion 3.5
Gonzalez 1.6
Jones 7.1
Lowell 2.4
Mota 1.3
Pierre 2.8

Total 45.0 wins

Despite losing the 45-odd wins represented by the players I listed above, Joe Girardi came in and, in his rookie year as a manager, he brought the Marlins to a 78-84 record, second only to the 97-win Mets in the NL East as late as September 12th, only five games back of the 2005 team which had fifteen million-dollar-salary players despite having only two million-dollar players left.

I remain impressed with Girardi's 2006 results, and I see nothing in his 2008 record thus far to convince me that he's not an excellent manager. Of course, YMMV.

Edit: Left off Lo Duca...heck, you get the point.

...and they added Hanley Ramirez, Dan Uggla and Josh Willingham as every day players and he managed to finish with the 8 th best record of 16 teams 19 games out of first place.
Drop Beckett from your list above, and I would consider trading the rest of them to get these three.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

...and they added Hanley Ramirez, Dan Uggla and Josh Willingham as every day players and he managed to finish with the 8 th best record of 16 teams 19 games out of first place.
Drop Beckett from your list above, and I would consider trading the rest of them to get these three.

They were still rookies though. And Uggla was a Rule 5 pick. Inexperience and uncertainty play a factor (just look at the Yankee pitching this year). He did a damn good job that year. Appearantly I'm not alone, just ask the BBWAA.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by 26 to 6

They were still rookies though. And Uggla was a Rule 5 pick. Inexperience and uncertainty play a factor (just look at the Yankee pitching this year). He did a damn good job that year. Appearantly I'm not alone, just ask the BBWAA.

...and Girardi had absolutely nothing to do with their development. They were just as good if not better the following year.

As for the BBWAA, they have gotten a number of things wrong throughout the years.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

As for the BBWAA, they have gotten a number of things wrong throughout the years.

Amen. Most notably for me, the one that still irks the shit out of me is Palmeiro winning that 1997 gold glove after playing n only 14 GAMES at first base, while Tino Martinez, the deserving winner got screwed.

[Mr Crunchy]

i dont think joe will be able to stand the shitstorm that fredo and the ny media in general are going to throw his way.
the yanks have 2 rookies who may or may not make it big time,a ruined mike mussina and then wang tung and petitte to round out their rotation.
3 out of 5 arent capable.
now hughes and kennedy may progress enough to help down the road but mussina is done and i cant see fredo sitting back and watching these kids get killed between now and the allstar game as growing pains are going to occur,it seems every pitcher has to go thru some shaky efforts before he can be consistant
every pitcher with the exceptions of Joba and Paps it seems.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

...and they added Hanley Ramirez, Dan Uggla and Josh Willingham as every day players and he managed to finish with the 8 th best record of 16 teams 19 games out of first place.
Drop Beckett from your list above, and I would consider trading the rest of them to get these three.

You might consider it, but it would've been a bad trade.

We're in the odd situation where 26 to 6 and I are in agreement. Rather than my "going stats" on you, I'd ask that we share respect for our differing opinions, lest I be forced to support a Yankees fan any further.

[Mr Crunchy]

lest I be forced to support a Yankees fan any further.

come on man,get it together,dont you be blashpeming in here

[BudLight]

Last night was a prime example of why Hank needs to shut up! Joba not available last night and Latroy Hawkins comes in in the 8th and tries to give it away. Until the Yanks have a dominant 8th inning pitcher, leave things as they are. This could be an every night occurance if Joba were removed from the pen.

[jacksonianmarch]

Chamberlain is a starter. This is how Cashman sees it and it is the right way to think.

We've been over this before. In order for Joba to A. be a starter at the end of the yr and B. beat his innings limit, we need to start the transition June 1.

Also, having Joba out there now gives us a shot to decipher which pitchers are useful and which are useless. As of right now, the 2 vets (Farns and Hawkins) have allowed 17ER in 19IP. The younger guys like Bruney and Ohlendorf have been very solid. By the time Joba hits the bush leagues to build up his arm, one of the above will step up and do a serviceable job as the 8th inning guy.

[26 to 6]

I know I've seen them before, but off the top of my head I can't think of them, nor can I find them. Does anyone know what the inning limits are for Joba, Phil, and IPK?

[Mr Crunchy]

limits?
so far hughes and kennedy have been limited because they got the shit kicked out of them each start
dont worry about limits
they wont see the 7th inning this year
finally chamberlain got beat
for a while there i thought he was another 10-0 aaron small

[Sweet Chin Music33]

Originally Posted by Mr Crunchy

limits?
so far hughes and kennedy have been limited because they got the shit kicked out of them each start
dont worry about limits
they wont see the 7th inning this year
finally chamberlain got beat
for a while there i thought he was another 10-0 aaron small

Thats not fair! Comparing Chamberlain to aaron small.

[a700hitter]

I am curious. How did Yankee fans feel about the following decisions last night by Girardi:

1. His decision not to return Hughes to the mound after the rain delay, despite the shortage in the pen with Bruney's injury and that Hughes had been pitching well.

2. Pitching Joba for 2 innings when the Yankees were not ahead and on the road.

3. Pitching to Joe Crede, one of the hottest RH hitters in this young season, with the winning run on second, one out and an open first base. The guy on deck was a very, very light hitting IF.

Another Girardi decision: How do you feel about banning candy from the Yankee clubhouse? What next... A ban on beer?

Are you starting to see why I think Girardi is a boob.

[Sweet Chin Music33]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

I am curious. I did Yankee fans feel about the following decisions last night by Girardi:

1. His decision not to return Hughes to the mound after the rain delay, despite the shortage in the pen with Bruney's injury and that Hughes had been pitching well.

2. Pitching Joba for 2 innings when the Yankees were not ahead and on the road.

3. Pitching to Joe Crede, one of the hottest RH hitters in this young season, with the winning run on second, one out and an open first base. The guy on deck was a very, very light hitting IF.

Another Girardi decision: How do you feel about banning candy from the Yankee clubhouse? What next... A ban on beer?

Are you starting to see why I think Girardi is a boob.

I dont question him pitching to Crede, I think Joba has the ability to get him out. Yankee fans always compare him to Papelbon, and I dont see Paps pitching around anyone.

I love the fact that Giardi is the manager, for the fact that I think Torre was all that much better......I think the Yankees dropped the ball on this one....