Hank: Joba needs to start now

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by BudLight

You are the one that used the term "going right after him", in other words using his best stuff. His curveball is not his "best" stuff, his fastball is his best stuff.

What are you saying??? Have you ever seen Joba Chamberlain's slider? Either way, going at him means being aggressive, not predictably throwing fastball after fastball.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

It's not going out of the way to find something to complain about. Disregard the result and think about it with a dash of baseball acumen. He elected to pitch to the team's hottest hitter in a tie game in the 9th inning on the road with a runner in scoring position and first base open with a light hitting groundball machine on deck. You IBB the hot hitter 100 times out of 100 there. Hell, when you consider how they are hitting right now, you even do it if Swisher was on deck, which tells you how my reaction would be to your hypothetical there at the end. Walking Crede was the move. Joe didn't make it.

I'm just gonna back off now because this is getting ridiculous. I'm not arguing that walking Crede wasn't the best option, I even said that that was my initial thought, all I am saying is that I'm not going to crucify Joe and Joba for trying to be aggressive and go right after him. Honestly, I would expect nothing less from Joba, whether that be a good thing or a bad thing. Fact of the matter is he wasn't walked, he drove in the winning run, the game is over and the Yankees left Chicago after taking 2 of 3 from the WSox. They're in Cleveland right now, and that's where the focus should be. It's all hindsight now.

[One Red Seat]

Who said you have to crucify him? You are admittedly giving him a pass for this +1 in the loss column when it is a decision he should be held accountable for. We don't live in a world of absolutes. It's not crucify or excuse. You can hold him accountable, ie add this to the negative side of the balance sheet, and still like him as a manager.

[BudLight]

Originally Posted by 26 to 6

What are you saying??? Have you ever seen Joba Chamberlain's slider? Either way, going at him means being aggressive, not predictably throwing fastball after fastball.

He threw 33 pitches in 1.1 innings last night. I wouldn't characterize that as really going right after anybody.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by BudLight

He threw 33 pitches in 1.1 innings last night. I wouldn't characterize that as really going right after anybody.

Because he wasn't perfect that means he wasn't being aggressive? Are you kidding me?

Have you ever watched Joba pitch routinely, outside of SUnday night baseball or Yankee/Red Sox games? If so, then you would know that Joba is arguably th most aggressive pitcher in baseball right now and goes right after EVERY hitter.

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

You can hold him accountable, ie add this to the negative side of the balance sheet, and still like him as a manager.

ok, fair enough.

[One Red Seat]

Originally Posted by 26 to 6

(You Sox fans can try to argue this, but to no avail. He has been simply the BEST)

I'll bite...since Aug 1....

Player	H/9	HR/9	(BB+HBP)/9	K/9
Joba	5.40	0.27	2.70	12.15
Papelbon	4.26	0.57	1.70	13.64

The HR, (BB+HBP), and K yield FIPs of....

Joba - 1.79
Papelbon - 1.56

[Jayhawk Bill]

Originally Posted by 26 to 6

Look, I see all of your points, but I'm not going to get in an uproar because of a loss that got away from us in April.

OK.

Joe Girardi threw away, I'd quickly estimate, between one and two tenths of a win with the decision to pitch to Crede, almost half of the total WPA added when Crede's hit won the game. I'd be in an uproar were Tito that numb; it's your choice not to get worked up, and it's better for your health.

[BudLight]

Originally Posted by 26 to 6

Because he wasn't perfect that means he wasn't being aggressive? Are you kidding me?

Have you ever watched Joba pitch routinely, outside of SUnday night baseball or Yankee/Red Sox games? If so, then you would know that Joba is arguably th most aggressive pitcher in baseball right now and goes right after EVERY hitter.


ok, fair enough.

Does he not pitch aggressively on Sunday night baseball or against the Red Sox? You're very confusing. Not worth any more effort here.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by 26 to 6

Now you're just being silly. Do you really expect me to get into this? Who cares. It has no effect on me, only the players. If they want candy they can get it themselves, they're not confined to the clubhouse 24/7, 365. It's a non-issue for me. If the manager wants to put rules in place for his players, why is it necessarily a bad thing and who am I to question it? Do I think it's a little ridiculous, yeah sure, but I'm not going to get in an uproar over it. So what, he had ice cream machines removed and doesn't allow candy. Who cares. If those things were proven help the players play better then yeah, you can get me to bite on the topic, but they don't, so WHO CARES!? Now you're just being petty.

I am being petty? I started this whole conversation by asking Yankee fans how they felt about some of the decisions made last night by Girardi. I only offered my opinion about pitching to Crede which seemed to me to be an obvious error in judgment regardless of the outcome. I don't care if he makes his team take Castor Oil. I was wondering what you Yankee fans thought. Apparently, you are okay with it. I am a bit surprised. I would have thought that Yankee fans would have thought it silly, and maybe even petty, for a manager of rich adult athletes to ban candy in the clubhouse. As you point out, they can get it outside of the clubhouse. Syringes with fake B-12 was okay in clubhouses not that long ago, but now candy is banned. Can coffee be far behind.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by BudLight

Does he not pitch aggressively on Sunday night baseball or against the Red Sox? You're very confusing. Not worth any more effort here.

You completely missed my point. I was asking if you watch him regularly on a consistent basis or only on a prime-time or big stage? My question had nothing to do with varying efforts.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

I am being petty? I started this whole conversation by asking Yankee fans how they felt about some of the decisions made last night by Girardi. I only offered my opinion about pitching to Crede which seemed to me to be an obvious error in judgment regardless of the outcome. I don't care if he makes his team take Castor Oil. I was wondering what you Yankee fans thought. Apparently, you are okay with it. I am a bit surprised. I would have thought that Yankee fans would have thought it silly, and maybe even petty, for a manager of rich adult athletes to ban candy in the clubhouse. As you point out, they can get it outside of the clubhouse. Syringes with fake B-12 was okay in clubhouses not that long ago, but now candy is banned. Can coffee be far behind.

When did I say I was ok with it?

Originally Posted by 26 to 6

Do I think it's a little ridiculous, yeah sure

All I said is that I don't care. It doesnt matter whether they do or don't have candy in my eyes. Who the fuck cares, that's Joe's decision, I don't have an opinion either way.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

I'll bite...since Aug 1....


The HR, (BB+HBP), and K yield FIPs of....

Joba - 1.79
Papelbon - 1.56

I'm not as stat savvy as you and there fore don't know how to calculate stats from a particular date to now, but let me take a shot here.

First off, FIP's are an experimental stat, something you seem to be very drawn to as you're always throwing these unconventional stats mustered up by the likes of baseball prospectus out there for your analysis. I'll stay on more of the conventional side.


......actually, I give up haha. How about I rephrase that to "Joba has been the best SETUP man since ha came up last August 7th."

There we go...


Hat off

[a700hitter]

Yaba Daba Dayhoo is in for the Yankees.

[jacksonianmarch]

and he isnt too bad

[Jayhawk Bill]

Originally Posted by 26 to 6

First off, FIP's are an experimental stat...

xFIP is called "an experimental stat," even though it's been around a few years now, but DIPS goes back to 1999 and Tango invented FIP soon thereafter.