RJ back to the Diamondbacks??

[Mr Crunchy]

hes the kind of guy who if you give him a lead hes nearly unbeatable
give him 4 he'll give 3 back
give him 7 he'll give up 5
the man,despite his prick like attitude and a face that only a mother could love,has been a winner his entire career.
being 6'10 and ancient will destroy your back
i dont know if hes 100% or ever will be again

that said
the alternatives in a trade just dont seem to be suitable for a team thats interested in making a run for the gold,if they were getting some serious relief help or maybe a legit 1st basemen i can see it happening
cashman isnt an idiot but i dont think he calls a lot of his own shots either

this shall get interesting,if rj is in nyc and doesnt want to be??
he can make manny look like a team 1st kind of guy

[Gom]

I would rather have Zito than RJ. No doubt about it. If they can sign Zito if they trade RJ, then it is a great move(s) for the Empire.

[ARod2212]

I'm in favor of trading Johnson if we get Clemens, but I want no part of Zito for 6 years. Too long of an investment for me.

[example1]

Originally Posted by Gom

I would rather have Zito than RJ. No doubt about it. If they can sign Zito if they trade RJ, then it is a great move(s) for the Empire.

Really? A great move? You pay a guy 18m a year to suck balls, throwing another worn out potential hall of famer onto the scrap heap filled with other Yankee failures, then you're able to get rid of him and use your exorbitant payroll to get the guy who will likely be the highest paid FA on the market this season?

Sounds like a really good plan. You should get Clemens and Bonds, see if McGwire can come out of retirement, put Sosa in RF and have Pavano pitch every day, if you can too.

You get on Sox fans for saying stupid things so its only appropriate to go back when you do it. This is not a "great move" for the Empire:

Let's look at the players the Yankees gave up to get RJ:

They sent Javier Vasquez, Dioneer Navaro and Brad "Admiral" Halsey to AZ after having sent Nick Johnson and Juan Rivera to MTL for Javier Vasquez in the first place.

This team is, at best, impatient and impulsive. They are like an American automaker. When you call a deal to get RID of RJ for as of yet UNKNOWN players, a "Great move" it reflects on the state of affairs in yankee nation more than on the deal itself. The Yankees never needed Johnson, yet they spent a lot to get him and now they're willing to get rid of him despite what they had to give up to get him.

The Yankees spent enough in luxary taxes last year to pay any player, on any team, to play for any other team. In other words, the Royals, simply with the amount the Yankees had to pay in cap-hit money, could have had Alex Rodriguez +.

Listen, getting rid of RJ is a necessary move, its not "great". He sucks. But just because the Yankees get lucky enough to get another team to actually take him and get something in return, there is no way they come out net-winners on the RJ saga. Not only did he cost them a lot of money and talent, but he produced ZERO on the field that has brought anything tangible to Yankee fans. He has not once raised a WS trophy for the yankees or even helped them win a playoff series. He's a waste, you're dropping dead weight. Congrats.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Now that Cashman is in charge, you won't see anymore 'impatient and impulsive' decisions. Cash is cutting his losses for mistakes made by King George. I like to think that Yankees are looking at it this way: Pettitte at 16 mil for one year its an upgrade over RJ for one year at 16 mil. Zito is a separate issue, and could be a good addition for the right money/years.

[CrespoBlows]

Originally Posted by example1

Really? A great move? You pay a guy 18m a year to suck balls, throwing another worn out potential hall of famer onto the scrap heap filled with other Yankee failures, then you're able to get rid of him and use your exorbitant payroll to get the guy who will likely be the highest paid FA on the market this season?

Sounds like a really good plan. You should get Clemens and Bonds, see if McGwire can come out of retirement, put Sosa in RF and have Pavano pitch every day, if you can too.

You get on Sox fans for saying stupid things so its only appropriate to go back when you do it. This is not a "great move" for the Empire:

Let's look at the players the Yankees gave up to get RJ:

They sent Javier Vasquez, Dioneer Navaro and Brad "Admiral" Halsey to AZ after having sent Nick Johnson and Juan Rivera to MTL for Javier Vasquez in the first place.

This team is, at best, impatient and impulsive. They are like an American automaker. When you call a deal to get RID of RJ for as of yet UNKNOWN players, a "Great move" it reflects on the state of affairs in yankee nation more than on the deal itself. The Yankees never needed Johnson, yet they spent a lot to get him and now they're willing to get rid of him despite what they had to give up to get him.

The Yankees spent enough in luxary taxes last year to pay any player, on any team, to play for any other team. In other words, the Royals, simply with the amount the Yankees had to pay in cap-hit money, could have had Alex Rodriguez +.

Listen, getting rid of RJ is a necessary move, its not "great". He sucks. But just because the Yankees get lucky enough to get another team to actually take him and get something in return, there is no way they come out net-winners on the RJ saga. Not only did he cost them a lot of money and talent, but he produced ZERO on the field that has brought anything tangible to Yankee fans. He has not once raised a WS trophy for the yankees or even helped them win a playoff series. He's a waste, you're dropping dead weight. Congrats.

Are you done? You missed his point entirely.

[Cityofchampions33]

If the Yankees get any decent players back and still don't have to pay any of the 16 mill, this is anything but negative for teh Apple's finest. The Yanks, if you look at who they're dealing with, could end up with Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres, which IMO is better than anyone available on the market. Also if he fails you have the Cuban kid in the wings for next year, so you gain cash, a possible piece(s) of the future, and a late run at Zito.

[He Hate Me]

Originally Posted by example1

Really? A great move? You pay a guy 18m a year to suck balls, throwing another worn out potential hall of famer onto the scrap heap filled with other Yankee failures, then you're able to get rid of him and use your exorbitant payroll to get the guy who will likely be the highest paid FA on the market this season?

Sounds like a really good plan. You should get Clemens and Bonds, see if McGwire can come out of retirement, put Sosa in RF and have Pavano pitch every day, if you can too.

You get on Sox fans for saying stupid things so its only appropriate to go back when you do it. This is not a "great move" for the Empire:

Let's look at the players the Yankees gave up to get RJ:

They sent Javier Vasquez, Dioneer Navaro and Brad "Admiral" Halsey to AZ after having sent Nick Johnson and Juan Rivera to MTL for Javier Vasquez in the first place.

This team is, at best, impatient and impulsive. They are like an American automaker. When you call a deal to get RID of RJ for as of yet UNKNOWN players, a "Great move" it reflects on the state of affairs in yankee nation more than on the deal itself. The Yankees never needed Johnson, yet they spent a lot to get him and now they're willing to get rid of him despite what they had to give up to get him.

The Yankees spent enough in luxary taxes last year to pay any player, on any team, to play for any other team. In other words, the Royals, simply with the amount the Yankees had to pay in cap-hit money, could have had Alex Rodriguez +.

Listen, getting rid of RJ is a necessary move, its not "great". He sucks. But just because the Yankees get lucky enough to get another team to actually take him and get something in return, there is no way they come out net-winners on the RJ saga. Not only did he cost them a lot of money and talent, but he produced ZERO on the field that has brought anything tangible to Yankee fans. He has not once raised a WS trophy for the yankees or even helped them win a playoff series. He's a waste, you're dropping dead weight. Congrats.

i'm confused...isn't dropping dead weight + not having to pay for salary + getting back prospects or someone to fill a need a great move? I think that's what he was pointing at.

And please, I think it's about time we moved away from the payroll complaints.

[example1]

Originally Posted by CrespoBlows

Are you done? You missed his point entirely.

Am I done? What kind of question is that? You saw the f-ing period, you saw that I submitted the post, then you just tell me I missed his point entirely.

Here's what his point was: if the Yankees can get Zito and get rid of RJ it would be a "great move". I went to considerable lengths to show that, although that particular part of the deal would be a "nice" move for the Yankees (getting rid or an inconvenience for a decent player), the entire RJ acquisition (which, in many ways, epitomizes the crappy management style they've had the past few years) can not be seen as a success and the word "great" deserves a better placement than to be referring to ANY deal the yankees have made with RJ.

[example1]

Originally Posted by He Hate Me

And please, I think it's about time we moved away from the payroll complaints.

Yeah, wasn't that convenient for a few days when everyone assumed we'd pay Matsuzaka 12-14m a year and thus pay him more than 20m a year. Wasn't that cool when yankee fans could say that the Red Sox were basically the same as the Yankees in payroll.

I didn't buy it then--although I thought it strengthened their argument--and I don't buy it now.

Matsuzaka is paid like a top line pitcher who was a FA. nothing more. Manny makes less than multiple Yankees do, and other than that the Sox are closer, MUCH, MUCH closer to the other teams than they are to the Yankees.

So, yeah, for a few days it made sense to say the Sox were just free spending and I bet it felt pretty good. I don't believe it. They filled some holes at the necessary price (SS, RF(?)), but so did a whole lot of other teams.

[example1]

Originally Posted by He Hate Me

i'm confused...isn't dropping dead weight + not having to pay for salary + getting back prospects or someone to fill a need a great move? I think that's what he was pointing at.

Oh yeah, missed this part.

Would the Red Sox being able to move Matt clement be a "Great move"? To me it seems like it would be a necessary move, an important move but not a "great move". Despite Gom's tendency to rain on every Sox fan's parade whenever anything good happens for them, he's okay to turn around and start praising the Yankees FO for a "great move" of getting rid of players they never should have spent the farm on in the first place? Does ending a nightmare that never should have started in the first place end up being a "great" move. Is that the type of thing that Yankee or Red Sox fans should walk away, patting themselves on the back about how great their FO is? If so that's pretty weak and that's what I was responding to.

[Gom]

Originally Posted by example1

Oh yeah, missed this part.

Would the Red Sox being able to move Matt clement be a "Great move"? To me it seems like it would be a necessary move, an important move but not a "great move". Despite Gom's tendency to rain on every Sox fan's parade whenever anything good happens for them, he's okay to turn around and start praising the Yankees FO for a "great move" of getting rid of players they never should have spent the farm on in the first place? Does ending a nightmare that never should have started in the first place end up being a "great" move. Is that the type of thing that Yankee or Red Sox fans should walk away, patting themselves on the back about how great their FO is? If so that's pretty weak and that's what I was responding to.

Wow...I can't believe my comments went that far. First of all, signing RJ was lauded as a FANTASTIC move. Look at the numbers that RJ had the year before he came to the Yankees. I for one, thought he would be the missing piece. So did pretty much everyone. Now, hindsight is 20/20, but it sure looked like a great move. I would love to hear someone's logic to the contrary.

Secondly, before any of this happens, if it does, I have come here numerous times saying I would love to have Zito, before the Matsuzaka sweepstakes. Also, I have given credit to the Sox numerous times for getting him. However, giving Drew 70 million was a mistake, and the fact that the guy failed his physical may save the Sox from a tremendous mistake.

The fact that you call RJ a nightmare now is understandable. I don't believe you thought so beforehand.

If you start saying so, then I will admit that I thought Beckett would be one of the worst trades the Red Sox have made in 20 years when they made it. As well as I thought that Renteria was going to completely bomb in Boston after being an All-Star caliber shortstop in the NL for years. Also Clement was going to suck royally, and Arroyo would be a first half Cy Young candidate, and Crisp would be an utter waste.

Are you starting to get the picture?

RJ was a great deal when it happened. It didn't pan out that way. The fact that the Yankees can get a prospect or two, or maybe even Linebrink, and not eat any salary, and use that money to get Zito is a fantastic move for the Yankees, if they can pull it off. Period.

[Mr Crunchy]

comparing matt clement who hasnt won a game since 05 to randy johnson,the man who beat our fucking asses every time he went out there isnt proper
and is out and out ridiculous
ya
i hope they move johnson to the national league
we couldnt beat him despite his 5era

andy petitte at 16M is a friggin joke
he isnt an upgrade over randy johnson
ny fans think because he was effective in 2003 and is a home grown player that he will be the savior
i think the yanks fans are grasping at straws here in the hopes that he will be the difference
in the national league central his era was 4.20 and his whip was 1.4
those #s translate into a fuking beating in the al east

and if they give barry zito 120M??
please
hes another guy who will get his ass handed to him in the heat of the al east

[CrespoBlows]

Originally Posted by example1

Am I done? What kind of question is that? You saw the f-ing period, you saw that I submitted the post, then you just tell me I missed his point entirely.

Here's what his point was: if the Yankees can get Zito and get rid of RJ it would be a "great move". I went to considerable lengths to show that, although that particular part of the deal would be a "nice" move for the Yankees (getting rid or an inconvenience for a decent player), the entire RJ acquisition (which, in many ways, epitomizes the crappy management style they've had the past few years) can not be seen as a success and the word "great" deserves a better placement than to be referring to ANY deal the yankees have made with RJ.

He was only refering to the Randy Johnson for Barry Zito swap. You threw a microscope on the entire deal, which has absolutely no relevence.

[He Hate Me]

Originally Posted by example1

Oh yeah, missed this part.

Would the Red Sox being able to move Matt clement be a "Great move"? To me it seems like it would be a necessary move, an important move but not a "great move". Despite Gom's tendency to rain on every Sox fan's parade whenever anything good happens for them, he's okay to turn around and start praising the Yankees FO for a "great move" of getting rid of players they never should have spent the farm on in the first place? Does ending a nightmare that never should have started in the first place end up being a "great" move. Is that the type of thing that Yankee or Red Sox fans should walk away, patting themselves on the back about how great their FO is? If so that's pretty weak and that's what I was responding to.

if you can get rid of dead weight for something in return, it is a great move. if your GM can get rid of Clement's salary and get prospects in return, I'd say that's a great move also.