RJ back to the Diamondbacks??

[jacksonianmarch]

Rumors have been flying around, and while I was away for a few days, I still kept my ear to the ground. The dbacks offered 3 B level prospects and the promise to eat the entire salary. The Yankees turned them down flat. The DBacks have a very deep prospect base, but are unwilling to part with one of their top 5 pitching prospects or one of their top five hitting prospects. Therefore, it wont get done.

As for another team in the race, SD is the frontrunner. Rumor has it, they want RJ at 10 mil a season, asking the yankees to eat 6 mil. But they are apparently willing to throw Scott Linebrink, Kevin Kouzmanoff, and a prospect for him. That package is being mulled, but Randy would have to waive his NT to go there, and that is not certain yet.

As for how this all started, a few weeks ago, Randy's brother died. Cashman called with his condolences and essentially, the call ended in a "I wouldnt mind being closer to home" bit out of Randy. It was not a trade demand, but enough to get the wheels turning. Cashman is trying to shed some payroll and get more flexible, but we'll see if this is all wheels spinning.

Overall, I hate the idea. Randy at his worst last season still at 200IP and won 17 games. As I pointed out, his peripherals were pretty good despite a poor ERA. This was attributed to his inability to avoid the big inning (OPSw/RISP and OPSw/runner one was 200+ points higher than at any point in his career). Therefore a pretty good WHIP and a good K and BB rate translated into a horrible ERA. You put his peripherals from last season against Schilling and you have nearly the same pitcher (more BB on RJs side and more hits on Schillings side). I do not expect him to improve per se, but I think his ability to avoid the big inning is something that his career dictates will return and hence his era will slide, possibly dramatically. Either way, when he returns, which should be by the middle of april at the latest, he will still be in line for a lot of wins and a lot of innings eaten. That is what the yankees need.

At the same time, last yr I was very hard on the red sox when they dealt a guy who ate innings for offense. Dealing RJ for Kouzmanoff may be real nice, and adding a piece to the pen like Linebrink can only help, but without some sort of contingency plan in the rotation, I hate the idea. We saw the red sox trim 6 to 5 and before you knew it only one was standing. While I think the yankees are in a different position altogether in depth, dealing from a position of depth in starting pitching is playing with fire. If the yankees keep RJ, they will have a rotation that looks like this.

1. Wang
2. Mussina
3. Pettitte
4. Johnson
5. Pavano
Igawa in AAA

Without RJ
1. Wang
2. Mussina
3. Pettitte
4. Pavano
5. Igawa

But we are in a different boat than the sox were. Karstens and Rasner both had good debuts in the Bronx last season, proving that at the very least they could be serviceable 5's and go deep into games. Hughes and Sanchez are in AAA and both have the label of MLB ready. Steven White was in the class of Karstens and Rasner and is likely major league ready as well with the caveat that he is likely no better than a 5. So the depth is there. But throwing away a 200IP 17 win machine like Johnson better get a little pitching depth in return. If the "prospect" from SD is a high level starting pitching prospect with no injury history, then I will sign on the deal right away. But if the prospect is another fielder or a reliever, I say no dice.

[Mr Crunchy]

if they move rj for anyone who isnt capable of pitching 200 innings i would consider the move stupid and would consider it a belated xmas gift for the redsox

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by Mr Crunchy

if they move rj for anyone who isnt capable of pitching 200 innings i would consider the move stupid and would consider it a belated xmas gift for the redsox

me too.

[Mr Crunchy]

david wells would still have a job if he wanted 1 in baseball

theres just not enuff lefties for everyone to go around

[bosoxnation07]

Yanks Want Three Arms For Unit
Yesterday for the East Valley Tribune, Jack Magruder indicated that the Yankees want a trio of young arms from the Diamondbacks in return for Randy Johnson. They want one reliever in the group.

Brandon Medders, a 27 year-old right-handed reliever, is said to be a target. Medders posted a solid 3.64 ERA in 71 innings in 2006, though his 1.68 K/BB ratio is cause for concern. Magruder indicates that Arizona wants to substitute the pricier Luis Vizcaino instead of Medders.

The other pitchers would come out of this group: Edgar Gonzalez, Enrique Gonzalez, Dustin Nippert, Ross Ohlendorf, and Micah Owings. What, no Juan Cruz? Baseball Prospectus's Kevin Goldstein lists Nippert as a "good prospect" and Owings as an "average prospect." The others aren't in the team's top 10. That might be a testament to all the young talent in the organization though.

Magruder doesn't expect the D'Backs to meet this Yankee demand, but perhaps the teams can meet in the middle


I hate the damn NYY, but I have to give it up to Cashman, that SOB could sell ketchup to a tomato farmer. He got three decent prospects for a player coming off of major wrist injury and is past his prime, if he gets 2-3 prospects and passes all of RJ salary to some other team I will be in awe.

Theo has made a couple decent trades, OC and The Beckett/Lowell package( ya we gave up alot but Beckett is going to be a frontline starter for us I believe), but they are nothing compared to what Cashman gets, its like he takes a old BMW that has 300K miles on it, no back tires, and a engine the runs on 2 cylinders and gets back all his money plus a couple of new Mustangs.

[Mr Crunchy]

hate the damn NYY, but I have to give it up to Cashman, that SOB could sell ketchup to a tomato farmer. He got three decent prospects for a player coming off of major wrist injury and is past his prime, if he gets 2-3 prospects and passes all of RJ salary to some other team I will be in awe

i do kind of like cashman but hes not above criticism
he traded his most feared hitter for these 3 guys
none of which will help him win this season

hes also the guy who traded contreras for.....javier vasquez who they dumped for....
randy johnson
he also traded jeff weaver for kevin brown and soriano for arod

i think hes a good baseball guy who takes his orders from someone else
theres not a lot of independant thinking in the bronx front office i feel

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

He didnt trade Contreas for Javier Vazquez. He traded Nick Johnson, Juna Rivera and someone else(I think Randy Choate) for Vazquez. He then traded Contreas for Estaban Loaiza.

[Mr Crunchy]

thanks for the correction sir
esteban loaiza
thats the ticket

by the way
i love the gabe kapler thing

[jacksonianmarch]

Mr. C. The direction was coming from elsewhere, and if the yankees went out and signed zito, you could assume the direction was continuing to come from elsewhere. But this approach by Cashman is to deepen the arms in the system, and he has done that. He has 3 top 10 pitchers in AAA, yet his most "promising" pitcher lies in single A that he got in the 8th round last yr. Joba is another guy who has shown amazing control and power thus far in the hawaiian league. Sufficed to say, he has restocked the farm with arms. And if he were to make a deal, young arms are the ticket to get what you want, so he has stocked himself up good. If he deals Randy for 3 pitchers, one middle reliever who can help this yr and 2 starters who could be ready this yr or next, then do it. Increasing depth in the pitching rotation is the fastest way to major league success long term. Johnson's dealing wont hurt the team in the form of losing an ace. It will hurt in the terms of saving bullpen. If we get a younger player who can eat innings while having an era near 5, then you do it. By no means would I want solely offense out of this. Good move if he can get it one.

[Mr Crunchy]

you can assume that barry zito isnt going to nyc and that the deal to arizona is pretty much in the shitter unless the yanks want to commit an early suicide in 07.

as far as the yanks building their farm goes
i agree
it was their modus operandi of success thruout the 90s and so long as steenberger had his hands out of the cookie jar the team and farm both fluorished

unfortunetly georgie had his hands back in the jar come the late 90s thru last year and the team failed

so
is cashman willing to deal their lefty for prospects now that zito is in sanfran or is cashman going to hang onto the old prick and make a run for the roses
i think if the yanks are serious they keep rj

[TheKilo]

RJ stays put now that Zito's in SF.

[26 to 6]

Originally Posted by Mr Crunchy

hate the damn NYY, but I have to give it up to Cashman, that SOB could sell ketchup to a tomato farmer. He got three decent prospects for a player coming off of major wrist injury and is past his prime, if he gets 2-3 prospects and passes all of RJ salary to some other team I will be in awe

i do kind of like cashman but hes not above criticism
he traded his most feared hitter for these 3 guys
none of which will help him win this season

hes also the guy who traded contreras for.....javier vasquez who they dumped for....
randy johnson
he also traded jeff weaver for kevin brown and soriano for arod

i think hes a good baseball guy who takes his orders from someone else
theres not a lot of independant thinking in the bronx front office i feel

Weaver for Brown, at the time, was considered a very good deal, conbsidering Brown, a big name, successful pitcher in the latter stages of his career would be coming to the Yankees for a year or 2, and we would be able to dump the colossal mistake that was Jeff Weaver, who we would have been stuck with for an extended amount of time. And Soriano, a below average fielder who strikes out and doesnt walk for one of the best players, argueably Top 5, in the history of the game sounded pretty sweet at the time, and honestly, still does.


Honestly, although I agree that it's smart to keep him, I wouldn't mind sending RJ back to Arizona, or anywhere for that matter, if we can get some relief help and some young guys. We have plenty of potential candidates to fill his void on a potentially great pitching staff. Both Rasner and Karstens can do it, or even perhaps a Henn type, or something. Or also, we still have Igawa and Pavano. Maybe having a spot open for him will motivate Pavano to turn it up in the spring and he turns out to be alright. And who knows with Igawa.

[example1]

Originally Posted by CrespoBlows

He was only refering to the Randy Johnson for Barry Zito swap. You threw a microscope on the entire deal, which has absolutely no relevence.

Originally Posted by He Hate Me

if you can get rid of dead weight for something in return, it is a great move. if your GM can get rid of Clement's salary and get prospects in return, I'd say that's a great move also.

I guess if you're really micro-managing everything that its a "great" move. I would probably just be happy that RJ is gone if I'm the Yankees, but if you want to go bragging about it being a great move more power to you.

If Arizona gives up ANYONE that will end up in the majors for the Yankees then they are stupid, unless NYY pay almost all of RJs salary. This guy sucks at this point.

[example1]

Originally Posted by Gom

Wow...I can't believe my comments went that far. First of all, signing RJ was lauded as a FANTASTIC move. Look at the numbers that RJ had the year before he came to the Yankees. I for one, thought he would be the missing piece. So did pretty much everyone. Now, hindsight is 20/20, but it sure looked like a great move. I would love to hear someone's logic to the contrary.

Secondly, before any of this happens, if it does, I have come here numerous times saying I would love to have Zito, before the Matsuzaka sweepstakes. Also, I have given credit to the Sox numerous times for getting him. However, giving Drew 70 million was a mistake, and the fact that the guy failed his physical may save the Sox from a tremendous mistake.

The fact that you call RJ a nightmare now is understandable. I don't believe you thought so beforehand.

If you start saying so, then I will admit that I thought Beckett would be one of the worst trades the Red Sox have made in 20 years when they made it. As well as I thought that Renteria was going to completely bomb in Boston after being an All-Star caliber shortstop in the NL for years. Also Clement was going to suck royally, and Arroyo would be a first half Cy Young candidate, and Crisp would be an utter waste.

Are you starting to get the picture?

RJ was a great deal when it happened. It didn't pan out that way. The fact that the Yankees can get a prospect or two, or maybe even Linebrink, and not eat any salary, and use that money to get Zito is a fantastic move for the Yankees, if they can pull it off. Period.

Hindsight is 20/20, you're right. While your assessment of some of the Sox moves seems off (Crisp is not an utter waste), I hear ya nonetheless. It would be LUCKY for the Yankees to be able to move RJ. Not a great move. It would depend on a really stupid move by Arizona. People aren't going to come out to see RJ once they realize he's no good. The guy can't hit 93 anymore.

[jacksonianmarch]

Johnson for Zito is futile now, but I never advocated it. Zito in NY would have been a huge mistake. Johnson right now would be a solid #4 pitcher in NY and would eat 200 innings at least. At best, he is an ace who owns. But then again, the yankees have 5 options other than Johnson that are capable of eating innings plus 2 guys who had a good debut last yr as well as a bunch of young kids ready to make the leap. Dealing Johnson is not something that will detonate our chances of winning. But dealing Johnson better have its benefits. In that deal, I would expect the yankees to add pitching. Potentially one young MLB ready pitcher who could repeat RJ's last season performance (200+IP and a 5ERA). If they can get that plus more, then do it. Otherwise, the 43 yr old creaky backed, bad kneed, bad attituded big bird is more worthwhile here than in another organization. In the NLW he will be an ace again. In the ALE, he is a mid rotation pitcher.