Clemens having second thoughts about retirement - Page 2 - Talksox

a700hitter · 02-18-2007, 01:45 PM

I'm at the point where as much as I would like Clemens arm in the rotation I think his return to Boston would be like a circus sideshow. I wouldn't shed a tear if he remains retired.

jacksonianmarch · 02-18-2007, 04:19 PM

I would like to see how ST goes before I make any statement on the issue. I think he'd help, but if he comes back, he might stunt Pavano's audition as trade bait and would certainly hold a spot that Hughes might be holding. But if ST is a disaster and the first month of the season has the yankees winning games 11-10 rather than having solid pitching, then I'll change my tune.

example1 · 02-18-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

I am of the belief that Hughes could match Clemens production in the AL East this yr, potentially surpass it.

Yet you said this about Matsuzaka, after giving lots of reasons why comparing him to Nomo is unfair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

So overall. 12-15W 7-10L 3.8-4.3ERA 180-200IP 150-180K 50-70BB

You blamed a lot of it on the Sox pen and the Sox going lightly on Matsuzaka (unlike what the Yankees would do with Hughes, right?). The only weak part of the Sox pen (or, I should say 'not strong' part of the pen) is closer. They have good depth there and will find 2-3 guys who work, just like every other playoff caliber team does. The Angels consistently have a good pen but consistently don't make the playoffs. The Yankees pen is questionable. Look, the fact is that if you have a good pen it isn't THAT good, because all things being equal a good pen pitcher is either going to be a starter or a closer on another team very soon. It is tough to 'construct' a lights out pen without getting it through the farm. You don't get the situations where you have Rivera and Wettland, or K-Rod and Percival or Zumaya and Jones very often.

Now you're comparing a 19 year old kid to Roger Clemens? Sometimes I'm not sure you are consistent jacksonian. It can be debated whether or not Matsuzaka and Hughes should be compared, but to automatically assume that Hughes could outpitch Clemens is just over-arrogance that I have gotten used to from most Yankee fans (impressively, not you so much).

I've seen only a limited amount of Hughes highlights. He looks like a great pitcher. Honestly, the person he most reminds me of is Mark Prior. They have that similar big pitchers build, command of a number of pitches and a fastball that certainly keeps hitters honest. You'd better hope that's where comparisons with Prior end.

jacksonianmarch · 02-18-2007, 08:14 PM

how could one even make a case for the rest of your bullpen. It isnt just the closer spot and you know it. Timlin, Donnelly, Romero all had years showing some serious decline. Tavares was useless in the pen. Who else is there? Okajima? A complete unknown who sounds more like a loogy than a full inning reliever. There is nobody who you could look to with any sort of confidence and say he can hold the fort. Worst of all, you'll have to start with Timlin closing and then have to take him away from your MR equation. The entire BP from top to bottom is shit. Not one guy out there had a good season last yr, except for Donnelly, but he trended seriously in the wrong direction.

redsoxrules · 02-18-2007, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by schillingouttheks

If the Red Sox give Roger the money he wants, I'll be pissed. He's not worth it for half a year, and he wouldn't even do that well here. Use that money to upgrade the bullpen where we need the most help.

I agree 100% , just retire allready!

One Red Seat · 02-19-2007, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Not one guy out there had a good season last yr....

Look at all of their yearly variance, and then explain why I should be concerned. If you can cogently (doubtful), I'll start worrying.

jacksonianmarch · 02-19-2007, 10:46 AM

How many bullpen pitcher crossing the 35 mark in age and coming off serial worsening seasons typically find it again? Answer: not many. For every Jose Mesa and Roberto Hernandez there is 10 Jeff Nelsons and Mike Stantons. Timlin and Donnelly are both aging and are coming off career worst seasons. Timlin's being more heinous than others. Those two guys are who the bullpen will rely on. Those two guys will be the breaking point of the pen.

rician blast · 02-19-2007, 10:54 AM

Clemens "having second thoughts" = Clemens needs some attention

jacksonianmarch · 02-19-2007, 11:06 AM

good point. He hadnt heard his name in a week or so, hence he had to get it out there.

a700hitter · 02-19-2007, 01:15 PM

He's like Mario Cuomo was every four years as the press asked him if he would be running for President. He was a crappy governor with only one speech in his repertoire, so they stopped asking after a while. When they stopped asking, he started hinting at it to start the rumor mill. At least Clemens can pitch. Cuomo was a bum who made a politcal deal to get his half-wit son in politics.

BudLight · 02-21-2007, 10:52 AM

Why would Clemens be interested in any long term financial arrangements in Boston? He already has a long term financial arrangement in Houston, his home. It doesn't make sense to me that he is already guaranteed a personal services contract in the Houston organization, and that he would scrap that for a personal services contract in Boston. He doesn't like to travel to road games now away from Houston, why would he want to travel to Boston continuously after he hangs up the glove.

a700hitter · 02-21-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BudLight

Why would Clemens be interested in any long term financial arrangements in Boston? He already has a long term financial arrangement in Houston, his home. It doesn't make sense to me that he is already guaranteed a personal services contract in the Houston organization, and that he would scrap that for a personal services contract in Boston. He doesn't like to travel to road games now away from Houston, why would he want to travel to Boston continuously after he hangs up the glove.

...and why wouldn't he want to have a personal services contract with two teams? Rocket is not allergic to money is he? There is no limit as to hthe number of teams with which he can have financial dealings at retirement. There is no conflict with his Houston contract if Boston pays him for personal appearances. It's easy money. He'd be a fool not to take advantage of the opportunity. I hope you don't think he is going to sit in Houston for the rest of his life after retirement. It is a sweet dealto play golf with an old friend like Al Nipper and a couple of sponsors for 20k plus expenses.His contract might call for 10-15 personal appearances each year. He picks up a few hundred grand to catch up with some old friends. Why would he want to do that? What a preposterous idea.

jacksonianmarch · 02-21-2007, 12:50 PM

easy money is showing up 32 times a yr in random locations over the US for 20+ mil. He isnt even taking that into consideration. He's talking more like 20 times a yr. The guy wants to stay home when it is all over, and to be honest, I think he is one ring short of calling it quits. The last thing he has not done is gone out on top. If we won it all in 2003, I think he calls it quits and rides it out on top.