Down goes Karstens

[HeadOfSoxNation]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

I expect him to be dealt this offseason.

No way...it's obvious that Minnesota values it's young talent, having signed Mauer to an extension and continuing discussion to get Morneau signed as well. They didn't break the bank for Mauer, they won't for Morneau...it seems to me that their big-ticket, astronomically-priced guy is going to be Santana. Assuming Liriano comes back to form, the Twins would have the best 1-2 in baseball by a loooooooong shot. No one else would come close. What would be their motivation to deal the best pitcher in baseball when he's just coming into his prime? Purely economical? I can't see that happening.

[riverside sluggers]

Originally Posted by Gom

Jacks thinks so. I think he is EXTREMELY OVER-RATED. Hughes and Sanchez for Santana. YEAH BABY!

Im a Sox fan through & through, but I will admit that the Yankees pulling of a Hughes trade would be a big blunder to their system. Fans will be dancing on Yawkey Way if they gave up so easily on this 20 year old stud. Although if its for Santana, its a trade off but still Minnesota would get more years out of him than NY would with Santana

[jacksonianmarch]

and on the cheap. Hughes is the best yankee pitching prospect since Whitey Ford. His polish and his stuff at 20 is remarkable. You dont give up on that kind of talent for anything.

[One Red Seat]

That is complete folly. I'm all about keeping your prospects to see what they can do, but not for that level player. If you can get the best pitcher in baseball who is only 28, you do it without question.

[Gom]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

That is complete folly. I'm all about keeping your prospects to see what they can do, but not for that level player. If you can get the best pitcher in baseball who is only 28, you do it without question.

Unequivocally agreed.

Jacks, this guy may turn out to be the real deal. However, how many pitchers turn out to live up to the hype? How many turn into the next Clemens? Most of them turn out to be average major leaguers. That is what Hughes will be. Like I said, my opinion.

From what I've seen of him, which admittedly isn't much, is that he has an average fastball, and an above average curve and changeup. Nothing really else. If you can package any number of major leaguers in baseball for the best pitcher in baseball, you do it without question.

Do I think the Twins move Santana? I don't know. I am not privy to their finances. There is no way however, they can afford the 20 million a year he will ask for and get. If they can get Tabata and Hughes, two of the top ten prospects in all of baseball for him, it would be real hard to say no to, in my opinion. What do you guys think?

[TheKilo]

Seriously Jacko, wtf?

You want Hughes to turn into Santana. So why would you b opposed to trading him FOR Santana?

[CrespoBlows]

Originally Posted by riverside sluggers

Im a Sox fan through & through, but I will admit that the Yankees pulling of a Hughes trade would be a big blunder to their system. Fans will be dancing on Yawkey Way if they gave up so easily on this 20 year old stud. Although if its for Santana, its a trade off but still Minneapolis would get more years out of him than NY would with Santana

You can dance, I'll shoot myself.

[rician blast]

When interviewed, Karstens stated "I generally don't mind "going down" on the guys, but not like this ."

[TheKilo]

Originally Posted by riverside sluggers

Im a Sox fan through & through, but I will admit that the Yankees pulling of a Hughes trade would be a big blunder to their system. Fans will be dancing on Yawkey Way if they gave up so easily on this 20 year old stud. Although if its for Santana, its a trade off but still Minneapolis would get more years out of him than NY would with Santana

Yeah, umm, facing Santana 4+ times a season is a bad thing.

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by TheKilo

Seriously Jacko, wtf?

You want Hughes to turn into Santana. So why would you b opposed to trading him FOR Santana?

Because Santana has 8 yrs on him and will cost 20 mil a yr vs the 350K Hughes will command.

[TheKilo]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Because Santana has 8 yrs on him and will cost 20 mil a yr vs the 350K Hughes will command.

Yet, Santana is the real deal. Hughes might be.

[jacksonianmarch]

Agreed. But there is always an adjustment period in NY. Guys who come up with us typically are better off because it is all they ever know. Dont get me wrong, when he is a FA, I hope we outbid everyone. But not at the expense of Hughes.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Yankees received "normal" reports on Jeff Karstens, the best possible outcome of a battery of examinations on the hurler's tight right elbow.

Karstens, 24, left his start Sunday against the Tigers after just two innings. He was sent for diagnostics later that evening and had a MRI and X-rays taken on Monday, and said that doctors had actually pinpointed the triceps instead of the elbow -- a good sign.

"It's just a little stiff," Karstens said. "I don't want to chance it too much. If you keep pushing it and pushing it, you're going to make it worse."

Torre called the news "outstanding." The Yankees plan to re-evaluate Karstens in the next few days, though general manager Brian Cashman was non-committal when asked if Karstens could avoid a stint on the 15-day disabled list.

"We'll see," Cashman said.

Karstens had been in serious competition to serve as New York's fifth starter, especially after ace Chien-Ming Wang went down to a Grade 1 right hamstring strain.

"That's why you try to line up as much depth as you can," Cashman said. "The season's going to start and we'll plug people in."

This is good news for now.

[example1]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

the yankees have far more depth in the pitching department than the sox do. If the yankees fail due to pitching injuries/ineffectiveness, then it isnt the FO's problem. They loaded the minors and gave Torre 7 starting pitchers from day 1.

I guess. I mean, if by pitching depth you mean "guys who can fill in at a B-/C+ level" then perhaps. If you're including the actual talent then you're absolutely wrong. Matsuzaka is better than anyone in the Yankees system right now and I am SO GODDAMN HAPPY THE YANKEES DIDN'T GET HIM!!! I would take Schilling and Beckett over anyone the Yankees own currently, including the current condition of Phillip Hughes (although if we were talking about 5 years from now that could be a no-brainer in Hughes's direction) given their upside and experience in big games.

It's easy to brag about depth that hasn't manifested itself yet with guys like Chamberlin or Sanchez being your ace in the hole, but that type of depth doesn't bother me. Go ahead and bring up those guys to face Papi and Manny and watch them weep as the balls sail out of the yard. Much better pitchers have had the same thing happen.

[jacksonianmarch]

Example, couple things.

First off, Wang and Mussina were better than Schilling last yr. That isnt conjecture, that is fact.

Second off, the depth that we have comes in all varieties with all sorts of potential (to be both good or bad). Chamberlain does nothing for us this yr. Here is the list of candidates.

1. Wang
2. Mussina
3. Pettitte
4. Igawa
5. Pavano

The next 2 major league options
6. Karstens
7. Rasner

The next wave of MLB ready talent that is ready for a full season
8. Ohlendorf (180+ innings last yr, he is fully stretched out).

The future
9. Hughes
10. Clippard
11. Sanchez

The fringe
12. White
13. DeSalvo (had an abysmal yr last yr, hence why he is fringe)

Guys who could be rushed
14. Horne
15. Wright

All of the above options have played well in the lower levels of the minors and all will start at AA or higher. Note, none of them include angel reyes, ivan nova, dellin betances, ian kennedy, or joba chamberlain who all have very high ceilings.

Having depth is nice and not only do we have depth, we have depth with guys who are young. The worst part of watching a pitcher go down is watching the minor league journeyman take his place (read: Small, May, Redding, Henn, et al who took the mound in 05). Sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle but all of those options are short term, right now options. Other annoying things that come along with an injury in your rotation is when you have a minor leaguer come up who has no idea where the strike zone is. This creates heartburn and bad memories.

The one constant with all of the guys mentioned above (this does not go for Sanchez or Horne who have some bouts of control problems) is control. You get depth with guys who wont walk the park and you will get them deeper into games. This saves your bullpen. Hence, our depth gives us the worry that maybe they will get hit hard. Yet at the same time, we know we will see strikes, we know they will give us innings and it will be a look to the future rather than offering some schmuck a start here and there.

On the other hand, the sox "depth" is laughable. This is because their best pitching prospects are not ready for the show. Your best #5 pitcher will rot in long relief or even in AAA (Hansack). Tavarez is a joke on the hill and was way worse than his ERA indicated last yr. This happened with Chacon in 2005 and eventually he came back to earth. After Hansack, you have Gabbard, Snyder, and Pauley. Gabbard and Pauley walk the park and Snyder just doesnt have major league stuff anymore. This is my point. With Beckett's history, with Tavarez likelihood of folding, with Schilling and Wake's age, the depth in the rotation should have been addressed better than this. Trust me on this one. If Tim Redding (or someone of his ilk) starts a game for the sox this yr, please turn off the TV, put down the remote and walk away.