April 10th Yankees @ Twins

[One Red Seat]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Curveballs are harder to control than fastballs. You take away some of the feel for the ball and it becomes that much more difficult.

Of course they are, but if you take away some of the feel every pitch is tougher to locate, not just the curve. Do you not see the inconsistency in your point?

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

Of course they are, but if you take away some of the feel every pitch is tougher to locate, not just the curve. Do you not see the inconsistency in your point?

No, there is no inconsistency in my point. All pitches are harder to control when you lose feel, but when you are just throwing the ball straight, you technically dont need the precise feel to locate it within 6 inches of where you want it. When you require all the complex movements required to snap off a breaking pitch, pick the phantom target, and hope for the curve to the real target is precise and you lose the touch of the ball because it is freezing, then you mess with the works. I am not blaming the entire suckitude on the weather. I am saying that it played a factor. And I have experience with it. You are taught that when it is cold, you go to the heat, especially if you have a good fastball. You jam a hitter in the cold and it can hurt something fierce. But the one thing you do notice is less break on the curve and less control as your grip and your snap may be off by a fraction of a second just because the sensory part of the pitch is skewed. Timing being off by a fraction of a second on the fastball means it may be a little higher or lower but it still gets closer to your intended target. Timing on the curve being off by a fraction of a second could imply that the snap isnt performed at the precise location needed to keep the pitch low and the ball hangs or you snap a bit too late and you bury the pitch in the dirt. This happens, it is a reality, and to deny implies an inherent lack of understanding or lack of experience as a pitcher. It is strange to have to actually explain it ORS, because it is a way of thinking that has pervaded my teaching when I pitched in HS and above.

You just knew, curves dont do so hot in the cold, go heat as much as you can and use your breaking stuff as a show me unless you start getting hit. I am not saying this was the sole reason for our suckitude, but we dont have a pitcher who can go to his heat and get away with it. You guys have 3 (depending on if Schilling velocity is up). Take away their curveballs and they can still gut by on heat to the tune of a 5ERA (Beckett at least). Take away a finesse pitchers curve and it is lights out terrible.

[One Red Seat]

I'm not denying that a loss of feel will affect the command of the curve. I'm suggesting that the poor quality displayed is more likely a rough start to the year, ie rust, than just cold alone. We frequently see pitchers have masterful control of the curve in sub-40 degree weather in October. It was cold as a witches tit in a brass bra in Detroit last year, but Rogers was snapping off beautiful breakers last October. I think Moose, Pettitte, and Igawa would have fared much better, regardless of temperature, if it was coming later in the year.

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

I'm not denying that a loss of feel will affect the command of the curve. I'm suggesting that the poor quality displayed is more likely a rough start to the year, ie rust, than just cold alone. We frequently see pitchers have masterful control of the curve in sub-40 degree weather in October. It was cold as a witches tit in a brass bra in Detroit last year, but Rogers was snapping off beautiful breakers last October. I think Moose, Pettitte, and Igawa would have fared much better, regardless of temperature, if it was coming later in the year.

I agree 100% with the bolded part. I am saying the cold was a contributing factor, not the whole shabang. And when you mix it with the beginning of the season and a major temp change from what they were used to in ST, it made a big difference. I wont chalk it up to them just being bad pitchers, because I know this rotation will handle the pressure and pitch well. I think we can bury this one ORS, we are kinda agreeing but saying it in different ways.

[yankees228]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

I'm not denying that a loss of feel will affect the command of the curve. I'm suggesting that the poor quality displayed is more likely a rough start to the year, ie rust, than just cold alone. We frequently see pitchers have masterful control of the curve in sub-40 degree weather in October. It was cold as a witches tit in a brass bra in Detroit last year, but Rogers was snapping off beautiful breakers last October. I think Moose, Pettitte, and Igawa would have fared much better, regardless of temperature, if it was coming later in the year.

I also agree with the second sentence. They were bad in the first week, for whatever reason. To argue over this is not really worth it. The only thing that is really up for debate is whether that is a sign of things to come, or an abberation.

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by yankees228

I also agree with the second sentence. They were bad in the first week, for whatever reason. To argue over this is not really worth it. The only thing that is really up for debate is whether that is a sign of things to come, or an abberation.

good post.