Torre must go - Talksox

Gom · 04-23-2007, 04:27 PM

It is about time that Torre is shown the door. He is a piss-poor strategist, and the Yankees win in spite of him.

I can't believe I am saying it, but I am wishing for the days of a younger Steinbrenner. He would have been long gone by now.

Truth be told, the Yankees SHOULD have won two of three games at Fenway this weekend. I'm not taking anything away from the Sox efforts, but he had a lead going into the 7th inning I believe in both games, and due to his pitching mismanagement, they lost both games.

It is time for Torre to go. Not at the end of the season. NOW. Not only will they do better, but it may just show Arod that the manager that put him 8th last season in Detroit is no longer his coach.

Torre is probably as bad a strategist as the Yankees have ever had. Stump Merrill could have won with this team.

jacksonianmarch · 04-23-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gom

It is about time that Torre is shown the door. He is a piss-poor strategist, and the Yankees win in spite of him.

I can't believe I am saying it, but I am wishing for the days of a younger Steinbrenner. He would have been long gone by now.

Truth be told, the Yankees SHOULD have won two of three games at Fenway this weekend. I'm not taking anything away from the Sox efforts, but he had a lead going into the 7th inning I believe in both games, and due to his pitching mismanagement, they lost both games.

It is time for Torre to go. Not at the end of the season. NOW. Not only will they do better, but it may just show Arod that the manager that put him 8th last season in Detroit is no longer his coach.

Torre is probably as bad a strategist as the Yankees have ever had. Stump Merrill could have won with this team.

/musictomyears.

TheKilo · 04-23-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gom

It is about time that Torre is shown the door. He is a piss-poor strategist, and the Yankees win in spite of him.

I can't believe I am saying it, but I am wishing for the days of a younger Steinbrenner. He would have been long gone by now.

Truth be told, the Yankees SHOULD have won two of three games at Fenway this weekend. I'm not taking anything away from the Sox efforts, but he had a lead going into the 7th inning I believe in both games, and due to his pitching mismanagement, they lost both games.

It is time for Torre to go. Not at the end of the season. NOW. Not only will they do better, but it may just show Arod that the manager that put him 8th last season in Detroit is no longer his coach.

Torre is probably as bad a strategist as the Yankees have ever had. Stump Merrill could have won with this team.

Is it Torre's fault Rivera completely shit the bed Friday night? Isn't that his job...bring in the relief ace to put out the fire?

Proctor's been overused, so you can have a claim at that one, but who would you have brought in in that spot? Vizcaino? That'd be three in a row from him. Henn? Farnsworth?

edit - lol

adam123 · 04-23-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gom

It is about time that Torre is shown the door. He is a piss-poor strategist, and the Yankees win in spite of him.

I can't believe I am saying it, but I am wishing for the days of a younger Steinbrenner. He would have been long gone by now.

Truth be told, the Yankees SHOULD have won two of three games at Fenway this weekend. I'm not taking anything away from the Sox efforts, but he had a lead going into the 7th inning I believe in both games, and due to his pitching mismanagement, they lost both games.

It is time for Torre to go. Not at the end of the season. NOW. Not only will they do better, but it may just show Arod that the manager that put him 8th last season in Detroit is no longer his coach.

Torre is probably as bad a strategist as the Yankees have ever had. Stump Merrill could have won with this team.

I really think they have old pitching and its finally showing . I really tought they would give him the door after 2004 so i think hes there for the long haul

castigs850 · 04-23-2007, 04:32 PM

id say he has already been there for a pretty long haul, but if you are talking about this season then I'd say your right. he wont be gone until you guys dont make the WS this year.

jacksonianmarch · 04-23-2007, 04:32 PM

Mariano shares blame but one must think of something.

#1- Mo has not been used enough.

#2- Mo is coming off an awful outing in OAK

Considering those 2 things, Mo should have been used once in the Cleveland series to get his location back. A 4 day break after losing to Marco fucking Scutaro is inexcuseable. Also, knowing that Mo's location is a bit off and his elbow is a ticking time bomb, you should avoid bringing him in with runners on or bringing him in for more than 1 inning. We already went over that game, but it wasnt just his bullpen he fucked with. No Giambi late because of a pinch runner, no Phelps to finish the game. Bad news all around.

Remember the Titans · 04-23-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam123

I really think they have old pitching and its finally showing . I really tought they would give him the door after 2004 so i think hes there for the long haul

lol tru u remember teh game last nite the yankmes r really bad rite?

TheKilo · 04-23-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Mariano shares blame but one must think of something.

#1- Mo has not been used enough.

#2- Mo is coming off an awful outing in OAK

Considering those 2 things, Mo should have been used once in the Cleveland series to get his location back. A 4 day break after losing to Marco fucking Scutaro is inexcuseable. Also, knowing that Mo's location is a bit off and his elbow is a ticking time bomb, you should avoid bringing him in with runners on or bringing him in for more than 1 inning. We already went over that game, but it wasnt just his bullpen he fucked with. No Giambi late because of a pinch runner, no Phelps to finish the game. Bad news all around.

Who should have come in during the 8th then? I swear Rivera is your best BP arm.

adam123 · 04-23-2007, 04:35 PM

exactly this is what old spot pitching gets

Remember the Titans · 04-23-2007, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adam123

exactly this is what old spot pitching gets

ya u think coach boone wuz 2 old wen he quit hey remembre the game last nite?

a700hitter · 04-23-2007, 04:37 PM

It's very easy to manage and win when you have 4 or 5 solid starters and lights out 8th and 9th inning guys. Now that he is without either end of the equation, he's helpless to manage to win any close games for his team. He got so used to winning being a turnkey operation that he literally forgot how to manage a game.

jacksonianmarch · 04-23-2007, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKilo

Who should have come in during the 8th then? I swear Rivera is your best BP arm.

I know he is. Some of this is frustration but look at how he got into that mess.

Papi leading off, 4 run lead. I do not like Myers in this spot because you are more concerned with walking him than you are getting him out. In a close game with Papi up in a big spot, Myers could always go at him and if he walks him, he walks him. A 4 run lead in the 8th and Papi leading off changes how you pitch to him and negates your primary lefty specialist. I would not have used Vizcaino especially after he got bombed against the Indians the day before. In that spot, I would have kept Proctor in after he threw 8 pitches to bail Pettitte out and then shut him down for the rest of the series. If no to Proctor, then I'd use Bruney who has been one of our best relievers to this point. If not Bruney, then Henn who has been very good especially vs the lefties. In no way do I bring in the guy with the biggest control problem in our pen into a game where a walk is killer.

jacksonianmarch · 04-23-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a700hitter

It's very easy to manage and win when you have 4 or 5 solid starters and lights out 8th and 9th inning guys. Now that he is without either end of the equation, he's helpless to manage to win any close games for his team. He got so used to winning being a turnkey operation that he literally forgot how to manage a game.

POST OF THE YEAR!!!!

Joe Torre has had it so easy for most of his career that he no longer possesses the ability to win a game based on having non-perfect options. Torre had a bullpen in the late 90s that had 3 or 4 guys who could be closers on it. Hell, they TRADED Bob Wickman away because he wasnt getting enough work. Even when Torre made the bonehead move, the pitcher he would bring in was so dominant that it didnt matter. In the past he had pitchers who he could leave out there too long and it wont matter. He had a rotation that had Cone, Wells, Gooden, Key, Pettitte, Clemens, El Duque, Neagle, Rogers, Mussina, etc etc. Guys in their prime (aside from gooden and Key) who he could hand the ball to and wake up in the 7th with the lead. Now he has matchup guys, short guys, long guys, guys who have poor control, guys with great control, fireballers, pusballers and a rotation filled with AARP members. We need a manager now. We need someone who can walk through the minefield unscathed. Our offense manages itself (even though Torre managed to fuck that up in game 1 already) so we will have lots of leads. But he is gonna have to make sure he picks the right guys to hold those leads. And even though he is being given uite an arsenal of power arms out there, he always seems to be using the coldest or more tired in the most inopportune time.

Gom · 04-23-2007, 04:52 PM

It's not even that. He burns his pen even when he wins. I would love to have Francona manage the Yankees. I never was a Torre fan, and this series just drove me nuts. He's clueless.

Look at Tito. He has a lead, he lets Matsuzaka go deep. I am willing to bet anyone here that sometime this week, the Yankees will have a 5-2 or 6-2 lead in the sixth inning and here comes the bullpen. THOSE are the games that cost the Yankees in Boston. His pen is so overworked that when he uses them in big spots, they shit the bed because their arms are going to fall off.

Let me give you an example. Yankees have the lead on Friday, he takes out Pettitte. Bullpen blows the game.

Sunday. Yankees have the lead again. Brings in Pettitte. Umm...why didn't you LEAVE PETTITE IN ON FRIDAY? Why? Because he is an idiot, that's why. I agree with the move in bringing him in, he gets through the inning. Now what? Next inning, he has Manny and Drew up. So what does he do? HE BRINGS IN PROCTOR! Manny is 5 for 8 against Manny with three homeruns.

So instead of having the lefty for Drew, he gives the Sox the advantage twice.

He is absolutely horrible. The Yankees will NEVER win another World Series with this guy managing the team.

Optimist · 04-23-2007, 05:00 PM

Damn Cashman and Swindel for fighting for him after the pathetic loss in Detroit.