Guidry likely out as Yankee pitching coach - Talksox

jacksonianmarch · 10-18-2007, 12:15 AM

Multiple sources are reporting that Ron Guidry will most likely not be back as pitching coach of the Yankees. Likely replacements include Leo Mazzone and Dave Eiland.

I have mixed feelings about who to replace him. I dont think Guidry was half bad, but I dont think he was half good either.

As for Mazzone, the Mazzone effect has been studied and has borne out to a certain extent. I do not have the article that was done in 05, but it certainly showed a significant enough improvement in ERAs from pitchers coming into and then leaving Atlanta, and the names did not include Madduz, Glavine or Smoltz. His philosophy is simple, command the down and away fastball and work off of that. And for 3 solid rookies coming into the fold, living by that philosophy could go a long way towards making them effective for a long time.

On the flip side, Dave Eiland has been very solid as well. All 3 of the kids worked with him this season and he seems to have a strong understanding of their mechanics. For example, Hughes struggled until Eiland came up to the bigs in September, and immediately there was improvement (and for those who watched Hughes throughout his development, his arm slot was brought back to what it was throughout the minors). So in terms of in house options, Eiland may be the best for what is going to be a very young staff on both the starting and relieving side.

So overall, I'd like either choice. I'd have to give a slight edge to Mazzone in my book though since he has a well thought out philosophy and has proven his excellence especially when he has great talent to mold.

TheKilo · 10-18-2007, 12:33 AM

lol wut

How'd Mazzone do in Baltimore lulz

jacksonianmarch · 10-18-2007, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKilo

lol wut

How'd Mazzone do in Baltimore lulz

ask Eric Bedard or Jeremy Guthrie

Taliesin · 10-18-2007, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Multiple sources are reporting that Ron Guidry will most likely not be back as pitching coach of the Yankees. Likely replacements include Leo Mazzone and Dave Eiland.

So overall, I'd like either choice. I'd have to give a slight edge to Mazzone in my book though since he has a well thought out philosophy and has proven his excellence especially when he has great talent to mold.

What? He certainly molded the O's staff this year. Lot's of young kids and the rocking genius did wonders. Cough. My dad was always a huge Mazzone fan, of course my dad was a huge Braves fan since 1949 until the day he died in June so his objectivity could be questioned although he did know the game inside out.

Scheurholz was the reason the Braves were so dominant. I really don't take much stock in the idea that pitching/hitting coaches make that much difference at that level other than managers are given too much blame when in-game management goes awry. It's on Guidry or whoever the pitching coach is for any particular team to make a determination when and if a guy should be taken out or brought in and when they are done and when they can keep going. The idea that Tito or Torre should take the entirety of the blame for a pitching decision in-game is only done by those who don't understand how it works. To blame them for their choice of generals is reasonable.

Not to say an exceptional coach can't make profound impact on certain players. It's been proven. In practice. Just not when under fire.

Papa Jack was very popular and a very poor decision to let him go. That's obvious by the on the field example. The reasons could be myriad. I'm not privy to them.

TheKilo · 10-18-2007, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

ask Eric Bedard or Jeremy Guthrie

Only if you ask Daniel Cabrera, Adam Loewen, Chris Ray, Steve Trachsel, Brian Burres, Garett Olson, Jim Hoey, Jon Leicester, Kurt Birkins, and Danys Baez first.

jacksonianmarch · 10-18-2007, 12:48 AM

http://baseballanalysts.com/archives...zone_eff_1.php

here is that article from 2 yrs back.

jacksonianmarch · 10-18-2007, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheKilo

Only if you ask Daniel Cabrera, Adam Loewen, Chris Ray, Steve Trachsel, Brian Burres, Garett Olson, Jim Hoey, Jon Leicester, Kurt Birkins, and Danys Baez first.

Nobody fixed Cabrera, Loewen was hurt most of the yr, Ray and Baez had TJ, Olson was rushed to the majors. rachsel was actually not all that bad considering his prior performance, his ERA actually dropped a half run in going from the NL East to the AL East. The rest of the guys either sucked or are way too young/untalented. He got a shit roster with guys who were either hurt, not ready or had no talent. The 2 guys with the talent that stayed healthy, he turned into monsters and has given Baltimore a top 2 that is comparable to anyone in the East. Coming to NY, he'd get kids with the talent and with some success in a short period of time.

TheKilo · 10-18-2007, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Nobody fixed Cabrera, Loewen was hurt most of the yr, Ray and Baez had TJ, Olson was rushed to the majors. rachsel was actually not all that bad considering his prior performance, his ERA actually dropped a half run in going from the NL East to the AL East. The rest of the guys either sucked or are way too young/untalented. He got a shit roster with guys who were either hurt, not ready or had no talent. The 2 guys with the talent that stayed healthy, he turned into monsters and has given Baltimore a top 2 that is comparable to anyone in the East. Coming to NY, he'd get kids with the talent and with some success in a short period of time.

So wait, he'd have more success with more successful pitchers?

ZOMG