Torre rejects Yankee deal

[One Red Seat]

But wait, the Sox were villains when Pedro made the same kind of comments. Here's your timeline, when it begins is irrelevant, but this is the coming chain of events:

-at some point, someone will call Mo out for the points made here
-this ice breaker will open a series (not many but not few) articles critical of Rivera
-he'll sign elsewhere
-blame will shift (press and fans) to the Yankees and how they did a "hatchet job" in the papers to send him off
-everyone wakes up, and it's nothing but puff pieces in the press

Happened with Pedro, some of it happened with Damon, and nitwits like 26 thought it was exemplary of how the Sox treat their "heroes". Such things would "never" happen with the saintly Yankees.

Personally, I agree with what most of you are saying now, about how Mo needs to STFU, and if a team wants the year to evaluate the player, then that's how it is. At the same time, you have to understand Mo's POV. If they are going to evaluate him, then he can evaluate them, and that's all he's doing. No preferential treatment from them, none from him. Tit for tat. Even, Steven. All that said, I'm loving it. Loving it for no reason other than the thought of people like 26 realizing the glass house they built out of Yankee "class" doesn't provide much shelter in a wind storm and the debris is flying around.

[Mr Crunchy]

funny how that works
the yankee mystique has been exposed
georgies silver spoon fed bastard offspring will run this team into purgatory by virtue of greed
we saw what happened here when tom yawkey retired to the big Klan meeting in the sky
the white snake of westwood,john harrington,the old skank jean jeanie,buddy,hayward sullivan etc....
it never goes well when theres too many hands in the soup...
the yankees era of torre is over and with that we close a chapter on one of the best runs in baseball history that still maybe deemed failing due to their october effort this century..
i never thought much of torre as a manager
his team,despite their professed love for him,stuffed it up his ass when it counted most and he has been out coached by the likes of francona and that old 78 year old florida manager who is now in a senility home 4 years after beating joe in the 03 classic.

fuck you yankee guys
you deserve pain suffering confusion and about 80 more years of ineptitude.

[schillingouttheks]

The Yankees offered him a one-year contract? I don't care how much money he was being paid. After everything he's done for the Yankees, this is how the organization says they want him back? Bullshit. They just didn't have the balls to say to his face "We are going in a different direction. Sorry, but thanks for everything." So, they make it look like they want him back by offering him a salary that will keep him as the highest paid manager in baseball, but for only a year? If they really wanted him back, they would have pursued him after he rejected the offer and asked what they could do to get him to return. Instead, they stood up and said "thanks for everything, bye."

The Yankees' brass needs to grow a pair. Seriously.

[TheKilo]

Originally Posted by AlexanderTheGreat13

I have to admit I'm kinda getting very annoyed with some of the comments Rivera has made since the end of the season. Why is he so hung up on not getting a deal done in spring training? This is the same team that has made him how much money? This team has given him millions and millions of dollars and he feels "disrespected" because the Yankees didnt get a deal done in Spring Training? He sounds like a little baby. I wish I was that disrespected.

Maybe because it's been Yankee policy to NEVER negotiate in season until that was broken when Cashman wanted to talk to ARod this season?

How does that look for Rivera and Posada, two of the main cogs of the Yankee dynasty?

[TheKilo]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

hey, we can take the small drop in production going from Rivera to F. Cordero while moving up in the draft order and getting a supplemental in the process. SWEET. I hope some team gives Mo all he wants and more. The guy was out of this world and I love the guy, but if he wants out then so be it.

PLEASE SIGN FRANCISCO CORDERO. PLEASE.

[VA Sox Fan]

bump for mosox

[He Hate Me]

Sorry to see you go Joe...I woulda liked to see you stay but only if you got a more aggressive bench coach (Bowa?) to balance out your comatose state which is perfect for the 162 game marathon.

You got to go out on your own terms of some sort after having to twist for a bit. I hope the Yanks bring you back in a FO or consultant role after the wounds have been healed.

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by schillingouttheks

The Yankees offered him a one-year contract? I don't care how much money he was being paid. After everything he's done for the Yankees, this is how the organization says they want him back? Bullshit. They just didn't have the balls to say to his face "We are going in a different direction. Sorry, but thanks for everything." So, they make it look like they want him back by offering him a salary that will keep him as the highest paid manager in baseball, but for only a year? If they really wanted him back, they would have pursued him after he rejected the offer and asked what they could do to get him to return. Instead, they stood up and said "thanks for everything, bye."

The Yankees' brass needs to grow a pair. Seriously.

Schill, I actually dont think it went that way. Couple things. The Yankee organization is at a tumultuous time. George is leaving. The organizational stalwarts are aging and some are FAs. There is a new crop of young kids coming in who look damn good to this point. And, Torre has disappointed badly for a fourth yr running. I dont think they wanted him to go to be honest with you. But I also dont think they wanted him there long term. As has been the MO of this FO since Cashman took control, he wants flexibility, and having 21 mil sunk into his manager is not flexibility IMO. He asked Joe to take what our FAs from last yr did, a 1-2 yr offer. He didnt take it. So be it. He was offered the possibility of making more money than any manager in history (over himself mind you) if he did his job well. He turned it down, so be it.

And to be honest with you, I think Joe wanted the opportunity to say "No thanks" to George's face regardless of the offer.

[Gom]

Originally Posted by schillingouttheks

The Yankees offered him a one-year contract? I don't care how much money he was being paid. After everything he's done for the Yankees, this is how the organization says they want him back? Bullshit. They just didn't have the balls to say to his face "We are going in a different direction. Sorry, but thanks for everything." So, they make it look like they want him back by offering him a salary that will keep him as the highest paid manager in baseball, but for only a year? If they really wanted him back, they would have pursued him after he rejected the offer and asked what they could do to get him to return. Instead, they stood up and said "thanks for everything, bye."

The Yankees' brass needs to grow a pair. Seriously.

You can't be serious, schillingouttheks.

The offer: A one year deal that makes him the HIGHEST PAID MANAGER IN BASEBALL. A 1 million bonus for every round made in the post-season. A guranteed 8 MILLION DOLLAR salary for 2009 if he wins the AL PENNANT.

Why on earth should we not be paid based on our accomplishments? I am paid that way in the real world. I get bonuses if I hit certain levels. To tell you the truth, I couldn't live my lifestyle WITHOUT hitting my bonuses. I factor in my bonuses before I get them because of how hard I work.

He is a greedy son-of-a bitch, if you ask me. He wants to keep his 7 million dollar salary or get a raise...based on what? Three consecutive first round losses? Don't give me this shit about what he won before. That's what his salary the last years was for. Seven million a year, fine, he delivered championships, and he was compensated. At this point, EARN YOUR MONEY.

Apparently, he didn't want to. FUCK HIM.

What do you think the percentage of managers who would take the deal Torre walked away from would be?

Let compare him to Francona. Francona was signed for two years, at 4.05 million. He has bonuses for...HOLY SHIT!!! Winning the ALDS, ALCS, and the World Series. His combined salary for two years is a million dollars less than Torre would get for ONE YEAR. I don't have access to bonus numbers, but I'm sure it's not $1,000,000 a round.

Once again, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out Joe, you greedy son-of-a bitch.

[TheKilo]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Schill, I actually dont think it went that way. Couple things. The Yankee organization is at a tumultuous time. George is leaving. The organizational stalwarts are aging and some are FAs. There is a new crop of young kids coming in who look damn good to this point.

Can't argue.

And, Torre has disappointed badly for a fourth yr running.

How did he disappoint? Tell me plz.

I dont think they wanted him to go to be honest with you.

Then they would have given him more than one guaranteed year.

But I also dont think they wanted him there long term.

Can't argue.

As has been the MO of this FO since Cashman took control, he wants flexibility, and having 21 mil sunk into his manager is not flexibility IMO.

Then what were the Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Kei Igawa signings, etc.

Toree did more for the Yanks than any of those players did.

He asked Joe to take what our FAs from last yr did, a 1-2 yr offer. He didnt take it. So be it.

Don't kid yourself. It was a one year offer.

He was offered the possibility of making more money than any manager in history (over himself mind you) if he did his job well. He turned it down, so be it.

But Torre did his job well this year. Not his fault his players got injured or Cashman sucked at assembling a rotation.

And again, it wasn't about the money. It was about job security.

And to be honest with you, I think Joe wanted the opportunity to say "No thanks" to George's face regardless of the offer.

With the way he's been treated by the fans, the media, and the FO, can you blame the guy?

[TheKilo]

Originally Posted by Gom

You can't be serious, schillingouttheks.

The offer: A one year deal that makes him the HIGHEST PAID MANAGER IN BASEBALL. A 1 million bonus for every round made in the post-season. A guranteed 8 MILLION DOLLAR salary for 2009 if he wins the AL PENNANT.

Joe Torre wanted job security. He wanted to manage til he was 70.

[qute]Why on earth should we not be paid based on our accomplishments? I am paid that way in the real world.[/quote]

Joe Torre probably did his best managing job this season. The players attribute their success in the second half to him. He's a great players manager and sticks up for his guys in the pressure cooker of New York.

Seems to me he did his job quite well.

I get bonuses if I hit certain levels. To tell you the truth, I couldn't live my lifestyle WITHOUT hitting my bonuses. I factor in my bonuses before I get them because of how hard I work.

That's fine, but Torre has been supremely successful in his job.

He is a greedy son-of-a bitch, if you ask me. He wants to keep his 7 million dollar salary or get a raise...based on what? Three consecutive first round losses?

Job security Job security Job security Job security purple monkey dishwasher

What games did Torre lose in the playoffs the last three years?

Don't give me this shit about what he won before. That's what his salary the last years was for. Seven million a year, fine, he delivered championships, and he was compensated. At this point, EARN YOUR MONEY.

He did.

And you say Yankee fans have no sense of entitlement? LOL!

Apparently, he didn't want to. FUCK HIM.

What do you think the percentage of managers who would take the deal Torre walked away from would be?

Very few, but very few managers have his track record of success.

Let compare him to Francona. Francona was signed for two years, at 4.05 million. He has bonuses for...HOLY SHIT!!! Winning the ALDS, ALCS, and the World Series. His combined salary for two years is a million dollars less than Torre would get for ONE YEAR. I don't have access to bonus numbers, but I'm sure it's not $1,000,000 a round.

Terry Francona will be paid handsomely when they extend his contract this offseason.

Once again, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out Joe, you greedy son-of-a bitch.

No criticism for Cashman? The FO for leaving Torre twisting in the wind?

Typical.

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by TheKilo

How did he disappoint? Tell me plz.

was at the helm for the worst collapse in the history of professional sports to the one team that nobody could stomach him losing it to. Then he proceeds to go 4-13 in his last 17 post season games with the team that had the biggest payroll and the biggest assembly of talent. If that isnt disappointing, then I dont know what is.

Then they would have given him more than one guaranteed year.

they didnt want him to go, but they didnt want him there long term. How else can a 1yr deal be interpreted?

Then what were the Carl Pavano, Jaret Wright, Kei Igawa signings, etc.

Igawa's signing was a crapshoot and a reaction to what the sox did. Wright was an absolute George move because he saw that guy dominate us 8 yrs prior. Pavano was a smart move at the time that completely blew up in his face. And if you are measuring your success against the Pavano's of the world, the you arent really doing anything noteworthy.

Don't kid yourself. It was a one year offer.

if he made it to the WS it was a guaranteed 2 yr deal.

But Torre did his job well this year. Not his fault his players got injured or Cashman sucked at assembling a rotation.

And again, it wasn't about the money. It was about job security.

Torre did well if you consider the hole he helped the team climb out of, but the fact remains that he managed that team into the hole to begin with. Then he faced a team that we totally manhandled during the regular season and his boys came out flat. His management was suspect and we were home by the 10th of october for the 3rd yr in a row. You cannot fire the players, and somebody has to pay. And for all those who are now on the Torre side of things saying that the postseason is all about luck, then you cannot give him credit for when he won the series.

With the way he's been treated by the fans, the media, and the FO, can you blame the guy?

He has deserved every warning shot. Have you watched the games he manages? He is quite possibly THE WORST manager of pitching period. He pulls guys when they have more gas, he leaves guys in when they are totally done, he burns reliable guys out until they are no longer reliable, and he lets his other options rot during mopup time. The guy has no idea when a pitcher is done until it is too late. I have SCREAMED on this forum multiple times that Torre needed to pull so and so a pitcher. And it had nothing to do with their history (well maybe some), but it had everything to do with their pitches. How does Torre not see that Wang is done when he is in the 7th or 8th and his sinker is floating to the top of the zone. how does he not see that Mussina might need to be on a short hook when his curve isnt locating. These are the types of things managers need to see and Joe just doesnt. So good riddance.

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by TheKilo

No criticism for Cashman? The FO for leaving Torre twisting in the wind?

Typical.

how was he left twisting in the wind? He got an offer on October 17th. We were eliminated on October 8th. Instead of making a reactionary decision, the yankee FO took a full week off before convening. They convened and 2 days later, Torre had an offer. How was he twisting in the wind? He knew they werent making a decision until at least October 15th. He knew that. He got an offer on the 17th. 2 whole days is twisting in the wind?

Someone's twisting, and that is you Kilo. Twisting the media to get a rise out of yankee fans. It aint working.

[Gom]

Here is the question. How good of a manager is Torre, in your mind, Kilo? Is he the best overall manager in the game? Does he suck? Is he middle of the road? Rank him for me. Then let's slot his salary, and find out what he should make. Bet you it's not close to the 5 million he was offered.

Truth is, you wanted Torre back because that basically guaranteed you guys had a great shot at the AL East next year, better than you would have with say...a trained chimpanzee.

Francona's managing style runs rings around this idiot.

[TheKilo]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

was at the helm for the worst collapse in the history of professional sports to the one team that nobody could stomach him losing it to. Then he proceeds to go 4-13 in his last 17 post season games with the team that had the biggest payroll and the biggest assembly of talent. If that isnt disappointing, then I dont know what is.

If Mo Rivera gets three outs in Game 4 in 2004 you're not saying that.
If Randy Johnson doesn't tank in the stadium in '05 you might have beaten the Angels.
If the offense doesn't take the series off against Detroit last year, you may have won the WS.
If CMW doesn't tank this year, you might beat the Indians.

The funny thing is the one move in this postseason that I feel you could really knock Torrw on was starting Clemens over Mussina/Hughes in Game 3, but you won that game.

they didnt want him to go, but they didnt want him there long term. How else can a 1yr deal be interpreted?

They were well aware of what he wanted in a contract, yet did not even try to accomodate him.

For all of the success he brought the Yankees, it seemed like it was a slap in the face.

Igawa's signing was a crapshoot and a reaction to what the sox did.

Doesn't take away from the fact he was an awful signing. Hey, you can use hindsight with Theo's moves, so I can do the same with Cashman.

Wright was an absolute George move because he saw that guy dominate us 8 yrs prior.

"George" moves are such bullshit. It's a copout Yankee fans use when a move doesn't work.

Pavano was a smart move at the time that completely blew up in his face. And if you are measuring your success against the Pavano's of the world, the you arent really doing anything noteworthy.

Again, hindsight....and that may have been the worst move ever.

if he made it to the WS it was a guaranteed 2 yr deal.

Maybe he realized Cashman built a shitty team around him.

Torre did well if you consider the hole he helped the team climb out of, but the fact remains that he managed that team into the hole to begin with.

OK, how so?

Then he faced a team that we totally manhandled during the regular season and his boys came out flat.

Or CMW shit the bed. You say ToMAYto, I say ToMAHto.

His management was suspect and we were home by the 10th of october for the 3rd yr in a row.

What moves did he make that cost the Yanks anything?

You cannot fire the players, and somebody has to pay. And for all those who are now on the Torre side of things saying that the postseason is all about luck, then you cannot give him credit for when he won the series.

That's fine. Cashman has gotten ZERO heat for the crappy teams he's fielded the last few years.

Meanwhile, Theo gets killed on a regular fucking basis.

If the postseason is all about luck, you can't claim he should be fired because he didn't win there. He got them there, which is the most important thing.

If you don't think the playoffs are a crapshoot, then you give Torre credit.

He has deserved every warning shot. Have you watched the games he manages? He is quite possibly THE WORST manager of pitching period. He pulls guys when they have more gas, he leaves guys in when they are totally done, he burns reliable guys out until they are no longer reliable, and he lets his other options rot during mopup time. The guy has no idea when a pitcher is done until it is too late. I have SCREAMED on this forum multiple times that Torre needed to pull so and so a pitcher. And it had nothing to do with their history (well maybe some), but it had everything to do with their pitches. How does Torre not see that Wang is done when he is in the 7th or 8th and his sinker is floating to the top of the zone. how does he not see that Mussina might need to be on a short hook when his curve isnt locating. These are the types of things managers need to see and Joe just doesnt. So good riddance.

Maybe the team just had a shitty pitching staff assembled for them...