Bronson Arroyo

[das11209]

Arroyo is just OK - but the trade was still bad. Arroyo >> WMP - that's all.

[Coco's Disciples]

They both suck. Slight advantage to Cincy, but not significant.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by riverside sluggers

Wake, Beckett and Dice-K arent reaching 200 innings because of one reason... the disabled list

Beckett reached 200 innings the last 2 seasons and Dice topped 200 innings in his debut season. Wakefield last season had a very respectable 189 innings pitched

Pitchers who hit 200 innings do so by avoiding injury. Arroyo has a very good record for durability by hitting 200+ innings 4 years in a row. Wakefield has broken down in each of the last 3 years and didn't hit 200 innings. It's a durabilty issue. Thank you for making my point more clear.

[redsoxrules]

Pitching 200 innings is worth nothing if you pitch like crap , like arroyo.
his ERA would be close to 6 if not over if he was pitching in boston
he cant even crack 15 wins. he's 1 game over 500 since being in cincy . that fucking blows

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by redsoxrules

Pitching 200 innings is worth nothing if you pitch like crap , like arroyo.
his ERA would be close to 6 if not over if he was pitching in boston
he cant even crack 15 wins. he's 1 game over 500 since being in cincy . that fucking blows

If your #5 starter can give you 200 innings and 12 wins every year that is something. You say he would do worse in Boston. The defense he has behind him is atrocious. In the series we played them, one of their fielders forgot the 3 outs at least three times. The ballpark is a joke. Crisp would hit 25 homers there. He's got a good chance of cracking 15 wins this season. His one down year followed a season when he threw 240 innings.

[Mr Crunchy]

cinci blows,their bullpen blows and i could hit 25hrs in that park.
inning eaters are valuable.
arroyo is what he is,a guy who is a mediocre pitcher that eats innings and isnt adverse to the big scene,he is the guy who threw inside on arod and started what amounted to be the change in direction for both franchises,he took the home town discount because he loved boston and was promptly ass raped by theo and dumped to the reds for a guy who would struggle making the drunk league softball team...
i like arroyo,hes a goofy prick that seems like hes always having fun.
we cant have those guys around fenway anymore for whatever reason.

[ORS]

Originally Posted by Mr Crunchy

i like arroyo,hes a goofy prick that seems like hes always having fun.
we cant have those guys around fenway anymore for whatever reason.

Papelbon and Pedroia?

I think a lesson was learned that season. Going into the season the Sox had what appeared to be good depth at SP and none on the bench in the OF. They traded what they had for what they needed. Unfortunately, that depth relied on a couple of pitchers that went down with injuries, and they were forced to give the innings that would have gone to Arroyo to AAAA drek. Through the benefit of hindsight, the WMP project was a bad one. Although, the same hindsight reveals that team wasn't making the playoffs with the rash of injuries they suffered in August, even if Arroyo had been here. Move on to '07, and I don't think we missed Bronson Arroyo too much, nor did we this year.

[TheKilo]

LOL THEO HATES FUN!

[Mr Crunchy]

going into 2005 we dumped arroyo knowing that schilling was out for the season and pedro was in queens..
we did make the playoffs in 2005,i was at game 3 when el duque got out of a bases loaded jam in the 6th? inning with no one out.
the 2005 staff was deep?
for the sake of atgument...
matt clement
wade miller
john halama
wakefield
lenny dinardo
david wells
oh my god who else
matt mantei mike remlinger,blaine fkn neil and the late geromi gonzales.
the injury that i recall was schilling being hurt but that was in the previous october and we knew hed be gone for a long long time,wells at 42 had knee trouble but he was essentially our ace that year.
paps came on in july and i think hansen followed shortly thereafter.
2 men over 40,6 off the waiver wire and a free agent in clement who was a .500 career pitcher.
and we still made the playoffs that year...
dumping arroyo ,who by all signs was coming along great drove me absolutley batshit,especially since wmpena went 10000% against their offensive philosophy by k'ing at a rate that would make adam dunn rob deere and dave kingman blush.

i understand the concept of taking a gamble but dont gamble with a young pitcher who was pretty good for you and showed very good upside and was dirt cheap.
its much better these days knowing pretty much who your pitchers are every day and 2005 was still blurry due to the 6 month world series party we had but i still am pissed at epstein for dumping that guy for a bloated bag of shit who did some great things at bp

[Mr Crunchy]

think about the guys who walked or were let go
millar
arroyo
damon
petey
manny
ocab
hanley
attempting to move crisp.
we spent 19M for 1 season of renteria,36M for 18 months of lugo rather than signing ocab.
its an IBM environment,all the guys who were goofy and were outspoken are gone,replaced with good ball players but corporate types like lowell and the gutty jd drew...
any personality that differs from the prototype was moved or allowed to move on.
sure they have a few left like paps lowrie pedroia and ortiz but we got pedroia at the league minimum and paps is ours for a few years due to his age.
could be my imagination but when i look at the 04 club and compare it to the 07 club there was only 2 ""idiots"" left and now we're down to 1

[TheKilo]

If you sign OCab you don't get players like Ellsbury and Buchholz.

Who cares if there are no "idiots" on the team...I prefer to root for winning baseball.

[The Dustball]

Originally Posted by TheKilo

Who cares if there are no "idiots" on the team...I prefer to root for winning baseball.

Well sometimes it's fun to watch players do funny shit, but yes I do prefer winning lol. The team still has a ton of great personalities like Youk, Pedroia, Papelbon, Beckett etc...

[ORS]

Crunch, we dumped him heading into '06, not '05. The pitchers on the staff at that time were a completely recovered Schilling, Beckett, Clement (who had not been diagnosed with shoulder problems yet), Wells, Wakefield, with Lester in AAA.

[Mr Crunchy]

sorry men
i missed a lot of 05 as i was drunk pretty much the entire time they were world champs,i woke up when they moved arroyo and have been fairly well behaved since.
it still pisses me off that they traded pitching for a softball player.