An Unfortunate Situation...

[Gom]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

Gom, it would be nice if your father sees a clincher in person, but you'll have a better chance if you convert him to a Red Sox fan.

Two Championships in four years, and they think they're world beaters. Imagine four out five like we just did. You'd be insufferable. You'd be intolerable.

In other words....you'd be us. I LOVE IT!

By the way, it was his love of the Yankees that made me a Yankee fan. He could have just as easily gone to the Mets. Thank God for small favors.

[a700hitter]

Four out of Five like you just did? That string started 12 years ago and it ended 7 years ago. Not too many guys from those teams are still active. You can see more of them at old-timers days than in regular season games. Jeesh, get current.

Everyone admired those Yankee teams because it was thought that they played the game the right way, but now we find out that the clubhouse was like a crack-den with a perjurer leading the rotation.

[Gom]

"Get current" from a fan of a team that waited 86 years between championships...lol.

You really in your heart believe that the Yankee clubhouse is a steroid enclave and that the Red Sox clubhouse is the Church of Latter Day Saints? I have a couple of friends who work for the Yanks, and are downright shocked that Ortiz wasn't named, as well as Delgado.

Look at Ortiz's numbers from Minnesota to Boston. Talk about a meteroic rise. Then throw in his irregular heartbeat [wow, where did that come from?]. How about the time he defended Carribean players taking steroids at a young age? Too many random coincidences. This isn't proof in a court of law, but where there's steroid smoke...there's steroid fire. Your championships are just as, if not even more, the result of star players taking steroids. Don't kid yourself. The athletes are just as dirty, the uniform doesn't matter.

Most of the ballplayers in the majors, in fact, I'd say 99% of them, aren't as smart as I am, or even you. How many of them actually graduated with a real college degree? They have money, but outside of the game, that's it. The education level isn't there, they don't follow up on what this stuff will do to their bodies in the long run. Either that or they don't care. They don't have the education because they never had to. I wouldn't have had it either if I had a 99 MPH fastball. They've lived a life of priveledge. Things came easy to them compared to the rest of us. Women, money, fame. What they have over me is unbelievable physical skill in the game of baseball. This is all most of them will ever know. They'll be famous, but they are out of the spotlight when it's over. So they will do nearly anything to stay where they are, get better, etc.

I don't think they're any better than me, or that I'm better than they are. Because they have such disposable resources, they lie, cheat, steal, do drugs, have money to literally burn on wine, women, and song. They have the money and fame to replace anything they lose with little consequence. Considering the life they lead, I'm not surprised they cheat.

What annoys me the most about this steroid stuff is that it's on all teams. From the sure-fire HOFers [Bonds, Clemens] to the marginal [Mota, Lawton]. It's everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised at anyone anymore. Not Jeter. Arod. Rivera. Posada. I wouldn't be shocked and surprised at all.

In baseball, this shit was known. You really think that only the Yankees were doing it, and the Red Sox sat there and watched? You think the Bronx Bombers were juiced up while the Monsters of Fenway played a good clean game, went home to their wives after the game, and went to church on Sunday?

I have no illusions about the "purity" of the team I watch. Can you say the same?

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Gom

I have no illusions about the "purity" of the team I watch. Can you say the same?

I use to until I saw Mo Vaughn's name on the Mitchell Report. I don't care if he used it to heal faster, he still used. That really got to me as he was my childhood hero. Now I myself wouldn't be surprised at most players. I'm sure Garciaparra was another one and probably David Wells too.

[TheKilo]

Originally Posted by Gom

Look at Ortiz's numbers from Minnesota to Boston. Talk about a meteroic rise. Then throw in his irregular heartbeat [wow, where did that come from?]. How about the time he defended Carribean players taking steroids at a young age? Too many random coincidences. This isn't proof in a court of law, but where there's steroid smoke...there's steroid fire. Your championships are just as, if not even more, the result of star players taking steroids. Don't kid yourself. The athletes are just as dirty, the uniform doesn't matter.

I didn't feel the need to read any past this post.

[VandaleIndustries]

I used to work in Southlake, TX, which is one of the area's richest neighborhoods. I really hate that town, but that's besides the point... A MLB player for the blue jays was a frequenter of our shop during the off season, we saw him about twice a week, really down to earth guy, nice family, etc....

The talk came up at one point, he said the talk has gotten out of hand. He admitted that in his opinion, about 25% of players have done SOMETHING, he wouldn't get into much detail though (understandably). He dismissed the notion that over 50% are on something (as many people believe, and said that's ridiculous. I had made the comment that I think Manny is just that good of a contact hitter, and that I don't think he'd be on anything, but Ortiz scares me a little. He said, "Ortiz, nah, that guy's just a freak, he's not on anything..." That was as detailed as he got on the whole conversation, but he seemed pretty adamant on Ortiz being clean.

Now, how much are we going to trust this guy??? Especially one that was so tight lipped on the subject? Who knows, but I don't doubt him, he always seemed like a legit guy.

Just my two cents in defense of Ortiz.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by Gom

"Get current" from a fan of a team that waited 86 years between championships...lol.

I am not dwelling on those 86 years, but you are apparently stuck in the 90's.

[rician blast]

Originally Posted by Gom

I have no illusions about the "purity" of the team I watch. Can you say the same?

Although not directed at me I'll chime in. I have no illusions about the purity of the Red Sox versus any other team, nor do I care.

I was watching a bit of a replay of a Sox game from the mid to late 90's, not sure what year. Canseco was on the team. Either that year or in subsequent years certain Sox players HR totals grew as did their shirt sizes...Johnny Valentin, Troy O'Leary come to mind. Nixon's neck-size soon grew and his HR totals rose. Brian Daubach was hitting the mid-20's in HRs, Garciaparra became a beast.

I suspected many of these players back then as I suspect some of the current squad. I don't care and I don't blame them either.

[rician blast]

Frankly this "purity" of the game bullshit is annoying. When has the game ever been truly "pure"? If laws are broken, there should be consequences. If MLB rules are broken there should be consequences as well. But personally I've had it with the "purity" rhetoric.

In terms of PED's or any other immoral, illegal or just plain "not nice" behavior, is anything pure? Is football pure? Basketball? Cycling? Doubt it.

There are much more important "impurities" to be concerned about...for instance:
Are politics pure? Is our court system pure? Is Corporate America pure? The impurities within those systems mean a hell of a lot more than baseball's ills, IMO, but aren't necessarily viewed that way by much of our society.

The thought that baseball should be held to some higher standard than other walks of life is ridiculous. If fans don't like the impurity, don't attend/watch or purchase anything baseball related.

[Taliesin]

I don't know. I felt like I should be eating a can of beans and wearing a hobo hat and people would call me Sal the Hobo when reading this thread. With someone named One Armed Willie as the protagonist. (he had both arms...just don't ask about why he is called one armed Willie and you'll be fine)

The doomed guy is playing the harp in the background. Seriously, that first post was like The Yearling but w/ more tragedy and the subsequent answers were full of more self-important self-indulgent senile rantings than a meeting w/ The Felons brain w/ The Felons brain.

Available for cameo appearances only during The Love Boat reunions but sadder.

[Mr Crunchy]

mannys #s havent changed in 10 years of pro baseball
ortiz is another story
nomar wasnt named in the investigation but stevie wonder could see this guy was busting out of his body when he was a rookie who went from 160 to 190 in 1 year as an adult.
ironic how ny loves andy petitte,a liar a cheater and a fucking rat bastard who had his dad pump him up
congrats mr petitte,you're the voice of yankee ethics.....
this my friends is the fucking disgrace of it all.
as someone above noted
who really gives a fuck?

i do like the fact that clemens is about to do the perp walk
fucking idiot wanted to press and press and press and lie and lie and lie
well raj
now you're wide open to indictment and lets hope that indictment comes after 1/20/09 so corkey cant pardon his buddy before he leaves office...
federal time isnt that bad
the only issue is you have to serve 2/3 of your sentence and they tend to make you do your time close to where youre tried....clemens will be well received in the fed pen in brooklyn,all those italian kids who loved mike piazza and the mets will be waiting to give raj a welcome he wont soon forget....

[BudLight]

Originally Posted by Mr Crunchy

mannys #s havent changed in 10 years of pro baseball
ortiz is another story
nomar wasnt named in the investigation but stevie wonder could see this guy was busting out of his body when he was a rookie who went from 160 to 190 in 1 year as an adult.
ironic how ny loves andy petitte,a liar a cheater and a fucking rat bastard who had his dad pump him up
congrats mr petitte,you're the voice of yankee ethics.....
this my friends is the fucking disgrace of it all.as someone above noted
who really gives a fuck?

i do like the fact that clemens is about to do the perp walk
fucking idiot wanted to press and press and press and lie and lie and lie
well raj
now you're wide open to indictment and lets hope that indictment comes after 1/20/09 so corkey cant pardon his buddy before he leaves office...
federal time isnt that bad
the only issue is you have to serve 2/3 of your sentence and they tend to make you do your time close to where youre tried....clemens will be well received in the fed pen in brooklyn,all those italian kids who loved mike piazza and the mets will be waiting to give raj a welcome he wont soon forget....

Sean

Without Pettite though there will be no conviction of Clemens. So, while he may be all of those things you state, he will also be the main reason Clemens will get to spend time with the Piazza loving Mets fans in the Federal Pen. I wonder how Raja feels about changing positions from a pitcher to a catcher.

[rician blast]

Originally Posted by BudLight

Sean

Without Pettite though there will be no conviction of Clemens. So, while he may be all of those things you state, he will also be the main reason Clemens will get to spend time with the Piazza loving Mets fans in the Federal Pen. I wonder how Raja feels about changing positions from a pitcher to a catcher.

Or from "Tight End" to "Wide Receiver"?

[schillingouttheks]

Originally Posted by rician blast

Or from "Tight End" to "Wide Receiver"?

"Give it to me! I'm open, I'm open!"

[Thumper]

I'm sure this won't be the first time Clemens has has two or more balls on him.