Clay Buchholz

[riverside sluggers]

per soxprospects.com

Clay Bucholz has been promoted to Triple A Pawtucket. Before making his first start for the Paw Sox, he will make an appearance in the Futures game in San Fran today at 4pm on ESPN.

Portland stats
7-2, 1.77 ERA, opposing .180 avg
16 games (15 starts, 1 CG)- 86.2 innings, 55 Hits, 18 Runs (17 ER), 4 HRs, 22 Walks, 116 Ks

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Originally Posted by riverside sluggers

per soxprospects.com

Clay Bucholz has been promoted to Triple A Pawtucket. Before making his first start for the Paw Sox, he will make an appearance in the Futures game in San Fran today at 4pm on ESPN.

Portland stats
7-2, 1.77 ERA, opposing .180 avg
16 games (15 starts, 1 CG)- 86.2 innings, 55 Hits, 18 Runs (17 ER), 4 HRs, 22 Walks, 116 Ks

Great news.

Now we can really see what this kid is made of. We should expect a few bumps in the road but it will be real exciting to see him pitch against better competition. Who knows....maybe he will rock AAA for a few months and contribute on the major league club when the rosters expand. That might be wishful thinking but in any event this is a good step for Clay.

Any news on when his first start for the PawSox will be?

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by SchillingIsTheNatural

Great news.

Now we can really see what this kid is made of. We should expect a few bumps in the road but it will be real exciting to see him pitch against better competition. Who knows....maybe he will rock AAA for a few months and contribute on the major league club when the rosters expand. That might be wishful thinking but in any event this is a good step for Clay.

Any news on when his first start for the PawSox will be?

that would be incredibly stupid. You dont bring him up yet. The kid's arm must be feeling the toll and ending the season at AAA while essentially climbing 3 levels this yr should be enough.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

that would be incredibly stupid. You dont bring him up yet. The kid's arm must be feeling the toll and ending the season at AAA while essentially climbing 3 levels this yr should be enough.

It all depends how many innings they give him at AAA. Theo Epstein mentioned they may toy with the idea of letting Clay pitch some innings out of the bullpen. Say he only gets in 20 innings at AAA and dominates....he would have a total less than 120 innings pitched in the season and could very well contribute on the MLB team.

I'm not saying its going to happen but you can't rule out the possibility if certain factors fall in alignment.

In 2005 Jonathan Papelbon pitched 87.0 innings at AA Portland then pitched 27.2 innings at AAA Pawtucket before getting 34.0 innings for the Red Sox. He was a major (actual the only positive) factor in the playoffs for the Red Sox that season. Clay Buchholz (if he performs well) could see the same path as Papelbon.

[jacksonianmarch]

Did Paps skip a level like Buchholz did? This is really only Clay's second full minor league season. Give him a little time here.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Did Paps skip a level like Buchholz did? This is really only Clay's second full minor league season. Give him a little time here.

Skip a level? Both Papelbon and Buchholz pitched over 100 innings in A ball before going to AA where they both pitched the same amount of innings. I understand your desire to keep him in AAA as long as possible and it may be warrented depending on how he performs. But if Buchholz pitches 20+ innings at AAA and has an ERA hovering around 2.00 with a strong K/BB ratio I wouldn't be suprised to see him get some MLB innings.

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by SchillingIsTheNatural

Skip a level? Both Papelbon and Buchholz pitched over 100 innings in A ball before going to AA where they both pitched the same amount of innings. I understand your desire to keep him in AAA as long as possible and it may be warrented depending on how he performs. But if Buchholz pitches 20+ innings at AAA and has an ERA hovering around 2.00 with a strong K/BB ratio I wouldn't be suprised to see him get some MLB innings.

A ball and A+ ball are not the same thing. Buchholz skipped A+ ball altogether.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

A ball and A+ ball are not the same thing. Buchholz skipped A+ ball altogether.

I agree I think he needs to go back and build those innings at A+ ball....err?

I know they aren't the same thing but no matter how you view it....he was too good for that competition, too good for AA competition, and now if he shows he is too good for AAA competition....

[One Red Seat]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

A ball and A+ ball are not the same thing. Buchholz skipped A+ ball altogether.

Why does that matter? He's shown he didn't need to pitch there. Had he pitched there, it would have just been a waste of time.

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

Why does that matter? He's shown he didn't need to pitch there. Had he pitched there, it would have just been a waste of time.

I see the point. But IMO, the extra levels create roadblocks which allow a pitcher to build up arm strength. You use the argument that Buch hasnt been a pitcher for all that long. That means that he will need more time to build up the arm strength than it would for a pitcher who has a long history of being a pitcher. Skipping A+ ball essentially decreased his wait time by a yr IMO, but it also may have cost him a season of 150-180 innings, which is what he desperately needs prior to making the big jump to a huge workload.

I have made no bones about it with Hughes, I had hoped he would stay in the minors all yr and log 180IP. Therefore, he'd be more ready for the bigs at 200+ next yr. Injuries, need and his injury have derailed that for the time being. I think Buch could really use this season at about 150-160IP and next season start the first month or so on a limited PC in AAA until a callup in May/June. Therefore he could get up to 190-200 for the yr and be a finished product in terms of arm strength.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

I see the point. But IMO, the extra levels create roadblocks which allow a pitcher to build up arm strength. You use the argument that Buch hasnt been a pitcher for all that long. That means that he will need more time to build up the arm strength than it would for a pitcher who has a long history of being a pitcher. Skipping A+ ball essentially decreased his wait time by a yr IMO, but it also may have cost him a season of 150-180 innings, which is what he desperately needs prior to making the big jump to a huge workload.

I have made no bones about it with Hughes, I had hoped he would stay in the minors all yr and log 180IP. Therefore, he'd be more ready for the bigs at 200+ next yr. Injuries, need and his injury have derailed that for the time being. I think Buch could really use this season at about 150-160IP and next season start the first month or so on a limited PC in AAA until a callup in May/June. Therefore he could get up to 190-200 for the yr and be a finished product in terms of arm strength.

He finished 2005 and 2006 seasons with around 120 innings each. I would think he has the arm strength to get up around 150 this season...it just depends where they use it. If he dominates AAA for 20-25 innings and the MLB has a need....why not?

[One Red Seat]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

I see the point. But IMO, the extra levels create roadblocks which allow a pitcher to build up arm strength. You use the argument that Buch hasnt been a pitcher for all that long. That means that he will need more time to build up the arm strength than it would for a pitcher who has a long history of being a pitcher. Skipping A+ ball essentially decreased his wait time by a yr IMO, but it also may have cost him a season of 150-180 innings, which is what he desperately needs prior to making the big jump to a huge workload.

I have made no bones about it with Hughes, I had hoped he would stay in the minors all yr and log 180IP. Therefore, he'd be more ready for the bigs at 200+ next yr. Injuries, need and his injury have derailed that for the time being. I think Buch could really use this season at about 150-160IP and next season start the first month or so on a limited PC in AAA until a callup in May/June. Therefore he could get up to 190-200 for the yr and be a finished product in terms of arm strength.

His target for the year is 165. He's halfway there at the break. With MiLB season ending in Sept, he can pitch for the big club to round out the year and finish it off. You overthink this stuff too often.

[jacksonianmarch]

maybe I am. I am still a bit jaded by what our FO has done the previous yrs with their prospects. A guy like Lilly comes up, does okay, but okay isnt good enough. Gets dealt away for shit and is now a solid player. There were tons of rookies who were brought up too early during our title years only to be completely ruined emotionally and then shipped our prematurely. I like having a finished product coming up before giving the entire fan base a chance to turn on a kid.

[iSeenHippos]

Other teams would have a Buchholz in the majors by now, but why should the Red Sox? Hughes and Lilly are excellent examples on why Buck should stay in the minors and develop as a pitcher rather than be pushed to succeed. Let him build up confidence and experience that he may have missed out on since he wasn't always a pitcher.

If the bullpen falls apart, or a playoff spot is locked up, then maybe give him a shot. Otherwise, just let him develop.

[CrespoBlows]

Originally Posted by iSeenHippos

Other teams would have a Buchholz in the majors by now, but why should the Red Sox? Hughes and Lilly are excellent examples on why Buck should stay in the minors and develop as a pitcher rather than be pushed to succeed. Let him build up confidence and experience that he may have missed out on since he wasn't always a pitcher.

Can you really compare the three pitchers? Hughes had pitched very well in his second start against the Rangers, and looked like he could succeed at the current time. Any downfall of Hughes should be credited toward his hamstring problem, not due to any lack of development in the minors.

Ted Lilly was never even close to being as dominant as Clay Buchholz. Lilly walked about 3.15 BB/9 with Columbus before he was called up. Buchholz is around 1.45.

If the bullpen falls apart, or a playoff spot is locked up, then maybe give him a shot. Otherwise, just let him develop.

I agree. The Red Sox have a 10 game lead, and don't need to rush Buchholz in the fray, but if Gabbard keeps issuing free pass after free pass, they should take a look at him.