Clay Buchholz - Page 29 - Talksox

UC9904 · 08-13-2007, 03:44 PM

Fastball sits from about 89-93 mph, and usually tops out around 94-95 with decent movement (although he has the capability of hitting 96-97, and has done so in big games). He throws strikes with his fastball, but he needs to improve his command some and be able to paint corners and put the ball where he wants it on a more consistent basis. Buchholz has a 12-6 curveball that is unreal when he's throwing it well (he can even come indisde with it to righthanded batters), but he could actually improve on his control with it a bit. His slider is a solid, above average major league pitch that usually sits in the mid 80's. His changeup is his best--and most consistent pitch that he gets A LOT of swings and misses on. It doesn't drop until very very late, and is thrown at a similar velocity to his curveball (change is about 79-83 while his curve is about 77-80).

Gom · 08-13-2007, 04:02 PM

This kid sounds like Phillip Hughes.

jacksonianmarch · 08-13-2007, 04:16 PM

Hughes has better fastball command and a better breaking ball. Buchholz has a better changeup and similar velocity. They are rather similar, although Hughes is more advanced to this point (and younger).

example1 · 08-13-2007, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Hughes has better fastball command and a better breaking ball. Buchholz has a better changeup and similar velocity. They are rather similar, although Hughes is more advanced to this point (and younger).

Obviously, since Hughes is in MLB and Buchholz isn't, Hughes can be called "more advanced", but that could be because he's pitched longer and (again) at a higher level. Until they are both pitching at the same level "more advanced" is just scout slang for "more polished" which is usually indicated by BB rates, which haven't really been a problem for either pitcher.

I don't know how you can claim that hughes has a better breaking ball. Buchholz's breaking ball is called the "best in the system" and is obviously a dominant pitch. I'm not saying you're wrong, but unless you've actually studied tape of both I have a hard time knowing how you say that. They both have SPECTACULAR breaking pitches. Both get AAA level hitters to swing and miss with regularity, something that even good MLB pitchers struggle with.

Hughes' command is better with his FB, and I like Hughes' body better for a pitcher. However, hasn't hughes had some injury history already (pre-draft?)(or am I just imagining such things?). Buchholz is the better athelete, as he is extremely fast. He is only now picking up pitching, and has just exploded onto the sceen thanks to his secondary stuff.

Hughes reminds me of Felix Hernandez, without quite the velocity, but with the same dominant breaking pitch and the ability to just attack the strikezone. To me, a guy who can hit 95 and throw excellent offspeed stuff makes the ability to hit 97 almost moot (against most hitters).

I don't know who to compare Buchholz to, and despite having asked numerous times nobody here comes up with a good comparison. I don't like the Chris Carpenter comp from Soxprospects very much, probably because I have never been very impressed with Carpenter. Buchholz is very lanky and long. He has a pretty nice delivery and a consistent motion. He has an excellent pickoff move for a righty. His changeup is excellent, very deceptive, and very straight (which you see less and less of these days) which really offsets his fastball nicely.

How does his stuff compare to--and don't kill me for making the comparison--say, Jake Peavy, or a righty Eric Bedard? I know he hasn't proven himself at that level yet, but in terms of his repetoir and stuff? I don't know those pitchers that well, but Bedard has a really nice curveball, an explosive FB and a mediocre (but useful) change. Supposedly, Buchholz's curveball has multiple dimensions, in that he can throw late breaking curves, and the sort of bigger, arching, earlier breaking curve--in other words he has the ability to throw pitches that fall within all of the curve-slurve-slider continuum.

Both of these pitchers are/were the cream of the minor-league crop.

riverside sluggers · 08-13-2007, 06:23 PM

Example, soxprospects.com is now comparing Bucholz to a right handed version of Cole Hammels

ksushi · 08-13-2007, 09:14 PM

Hughes does not have a better breaker than Buchholz. I've seen both, and Buch makes your jaw drop. His curve is nose to toes and is brutal. I don't think Hughes has that kind of breaker.

example1 · 08-14-2007, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverside sluggers

Example, soxprospects.com is now comparing Bucholz to a right handed version of Cole Hammels

That's a better comparison. I think I brought Hamels' name up a few weeks ago as a possible comp. Their repetoir is similar, their build is similar, and their minor league success is similar. Hamel's numbers were better in the minors, but he only threw 42 IP above AA, while Buchholz has thrown 117. Thanks for clarifying that RS.

Soxprospects usually gets a good comparison if given enough time. I never liked the Carpenter comparison.

example1 · 08-14-2007, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksushi

Hughes does not have a better breaker than Buchholz. I've seen both, and Buch makes your jaw drop. His curve is nose to toes and is brutal. I don't think Hughes has that kind of breaker.

Hughes' is a little bit sharper, in terms of being closer to a slider. Buchholz has that Zito/Hamels type nose to toes, while Hughes has the Pedro-esque sharp movement. As someone who never really threw a good curveball, I respect both types.

jacksonianmarch · 08-14-2007, 11:14 AM

Hughes actually has the Zito-esque breaking ball that is the slow, 65-70 mph breaking ball, nose to toes that he can locate. In terms of location and break, Hughes is better.

jacksonianmarch · 08-14-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by riverside sluggers

Example, soxprospects.com is now comparing Bucholz to a right handed version of Cole Hammels

soxprospects compares all of their players to all star caliber ones, so that can be considered with some skepticism.

example1 · 08-14-2007, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

soxprospects compares all of their players to all star caliber ones, so that can be considered with some skepticism.

Do you actually read what you post before you post it?

Is Soxprospects just being homers about Buchholz? Are you saying that ALL the scouts who say he is a "future ACE" are just Red Sox fans secretly? Jesus, get over it man. Hughes is a great prospect. Buchholz has become one right under your eyes as well.

The reason soxprospects compares some of them to star players is because--to most fans--those are players one can understand and the type of impact the players can have can best be envisioned by thinking of current impact players. What good would a comparison be if you had never heard of the player they were comparing?

But to go one step further, I challenge your premise that they compare them to star players in the first place. Brandon Moss is compared to Lance Berkman because he's obviously going to be a star... wait, no, he's compared to Jay Gibbons. JAY GIBBONS. Kris Johnson: Cliff Lee. Mark Wagner: Rick Cerone. David Pauley: Jason Johnson. The list goes on. Largely, I think the comparisons are indicative of how the FO views the players and can help explain why--for instance--the Red Sox would not part with Jacoby Ellsbury or Clay Buchholz for Mark Teixeira... even if most people haven't heard of them.

example1 · 08-14-2007, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

Hughes actually has the Zito-esque breaking ball that is the slow, 65-70 mph breaking ball, nose to toes that he can locate. In terms of location and break, Hughes is better.

How much have you seen Buchholz? I'm curious, because I try and try, but I can only watch his occasional start on milb.com and the futures game. I don't imagine you've seen as much of him as, say, the BA scouts who say he has the best in the system and some have said it's better than Beckett's, which is a tremendous curveball.

jacksonianmarch · 08-14-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by example1

Do you actually read what you post before you post it?

Is Soxprospects just being homers about Buchholz? Are you saying that ALL the scouts who say he is a "future ACE" are just Red Sox fans secretly? Jesus, get over it man. Hughes is a great prospect. Buchholz has become one right under your eyes as well.

The reason soxprospects compares some of them to star players is because--to most fans--those are players one can understand and the type of impact the players can have can best be envisioned by thinking of current impact players. What good would a comparison be if you had never heard of the player they were comparing?

But to go one step further, I challenge your premise that they compare them to star players in the first place. Brandon Moss is compared to Lance Berkman because he's obviously going to be a star... wait, no, he's compared to Jay Gibbons. JAY GIBBONS. Kris Johnson: Cliff Lee. Mark Wagner: Rick Cerone. David Pauley: Jason Johnson. The list goes on. Largely, I think the comparisons are indicative of how the FO views the players and can help explain why--for instance--the Red Sox would not part with Jacoby Ellsbury or Clay Buchholz for Mark Teixeira... even if most people haven't heard of them.

reading comprehension seems to be slipping today. I have said before that Buchholz is a future #1. I have said before that he has great command of a deep arsenal. I just have an issue with soxprospects and their comparisons. Their scouting reports are pretty good. That is all I am saying.

But I'll go off the scouting sites who considered Hughes curve one of if not the best curveball in the minor leagues last season. And last I checked, Buchholz was in the minors last yr.

Rdsxmbnt · 08-14-2007, 12:12 PM

however Buchholz ace caliber stuff didnt really show up until later in the minor league season last season. His stuff he showed late was no fluke and thus the tremendous results and huge jump up the prospect ranks. From BPs midseason stock check:

Quote:

41. Clay Buchholz, RHP, Red Sox, 22
Eligible Next Year? Most likely
Stock Movement Since Ranking: Up, like crazy up

The jump in stuff that we saw at the end of last year became permanent, as Buchholz blossomed from "just" one of the better righty pitching prospects around to arguably the best after posting a 1.77 ERA in 86.2 innings for Double-A Portland, boosted by 116 strikeouts and just 55 hits allowed.

jacksonianmarch · 08-14-2007, 12:14 PM

I do not doubt that this kid is a great talent.