Clay Buchholz - Page 31 - Talksox

jacksonianmarch · 09-01-2007, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ksushi

Idiocy? I don't think so. His velocity was up as high as 96 in april when he was in A ball. He got shelved for a couple weeks because of forearm cramps - usually a warning sign that TJ is on the way, case after case of "forearm cramping" is followed up months later by TJ - when he got back on the hill his velocity went from 91 - 94 to 88 - 91 with the occasional flash of 93ish. That isn't a good sign, and to say its idiocy to speculate about a guys arm when his velocity crashes like that isn't a little careless on your part, I think.

Yeah, he had cancer, and I'm sure that had a lot to do with his diminished stuff late last year. He looked very good and was just coming around when all that happened and I was just as heart-wrenched as anyone.

But he came back to ST in pretty good shape. Gained his weight back well, and his velocity was lagging early in ST, but then it all seemed to be coming back. He was dominating in AAA, and with good velocity. Look at the numbers, his first handful of AAA starts were fantastic, then he got shelved and was barely average against minor leaguers and his velocity fell off the table.

That isn't reason to speculate about a guys arm health?

Sorry, I guess I'm stupid then.

You guys panned me for this theory when he first went down. A typical pain pattern of a torn UCL is pain in the forearm. As the ligament gets lax, the tendons of the forearm have increased stress on every pitch and it predisposed to cramping. Once the cramping goes down, the muscles tighten and the elbow can then start hurting. Hell, we have 2 examples this yr in Pavano and Donnelly. It started with forearm cramping and now both have those long scars on their elbows.

AMarshal2 · 09-01-2007, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobZombie

I'm not so sure its wise to have C-Buck start tommorow. Apparently C-Buck has been suffering from a tired arm and was going to take a start off. No one game is important enough to risk his health.

Says who?

Either you have bad sources or you made that up.

UC9904 · 09-01-2007, 01:29 PM

"Idiocy? I don't think so. His velocity was up as high as 96 in april when he was in A ball. He got shelved for a couple weeks because of forearm cramps - usually a warning sign that TJ is on the way, case after case of "forearm cramping" is followed up months later by TJ - when he got back on the hill his velocity went from 91 - 94 to 88 - 91 with the occasional flash of 93ish. That isn't a good sign, and to say its idiocy to speculate about a guys arm when his velocity crashes like that isn't a little careless on your part, I think."

Umm, ok. Forearm cramping CAN be a precursor to the eventual necessity of TJ surgery, but as of now the forearm pain has been an isolated incident. In fact, after an extended period of rest and a brief stint of being prohibiting from throwing his cut fastball, Lester has reported no signs of pain. I have no problem with you claiming that your fear is that Lester may in the future be heading towards having TJ surgery, but to say something like "I have the sneaking suspicion he needs TJ surgery" as if there's been more than just the singular warning sign is a tad bit premature in my opinion.

"But he came back to ST in pretty good shape. Gained his weight back well, and his velocity was lagging early in ST, but then it all seemed to be coming back. He was dominating in AAA, and with good velocity. Look at the numbers, his first handful of AAA starts were fantastic, then he got shelved and was barely average against minor leaguers and his velocity fell off the table."

Really? Did Lester tell you personally that he had returned to full health and had regained all/any of his lost weight?

Honestly, I'm not discouting the possibility (however premature it may be) that Lester is on his way to needing TJ surgery. That may be the reason why he has lost some on his fastball. But there are a number (4387438743589598 to be exact) of other reasons as to why his stuff is not where it was a season ago, such as: a) he did not have an actual offseason to workout, b) receiving chemo and other cancer treatments take A LOT out of someone, or c) a combination of the two, etc.

"That isn't reason to speculate about a guys arm health?"

I guess it is. But it isn't reason to try and make it sound like there have been several warning signs indicative of Lester being on his way to needed TJ surgery.

"Sorry, I guess I'm stupid then."

I never said you're stupid.

But your post was.

UC9904 · 09-01-2007, 01:33 PM

Oh, and I followed every one of Lester's minor league games at the start of the season. He was clearly overpowering and outclassing low-A hitters, but he was NOT dominating at the AAA level. He did initially have some relatively good numbers in AAA (very good ERA), but he was giving up a lot of hits (indicative of poor stuff) and walking far too many batters, while at the same time striking out far too few. Even before the forearm cramping his K totals were very low in comparison to the rest of his career.

I think you're the one that should be taking a look at his AAA numbers.

Beckett95 · 09-01-2007, 09:10 PM

this kid really has some major talent. he reminds me of a roy oswalt/ben sheets pitcher in their prime, and hopefully he can stay healthy.

example1 · 09-01-2007, 10:13 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again: the kid should be pitching down the stretch as often as possible. Starter, reliever, I don't care which.

riverside sluggers · 09-01-2007, 10:18 PM

Starter please.

Josh Beckett
Daisuke Matsuzaka
Curt Schilling
Clay Bucholz
Tim Wakefield

Lester to bullpen or as I think is best, shut him down for rest of the season

**schillingouttheks** · 09-01-2007, 10:19 PM

Let Lester spot start tomorrow and then just shut him down for the rest of the season. Buchholz should be on this roster through October.

Beckett95 · 09-01-2007, 10:32 PM

DO NOT TRADE THIS KID.
shut down lester for the rest of the year, keep him in the rotation, and as far as next years rotation goes...

beckett
dice-k
bucholz
wake
lester

unless we go after a FA or trade for someone.