Question regarding the future of the Red Sox outfield...

[RavenOfProphecy]

For a while, I've been thinking about how the top prospects in the Red Sox outfield fit into the team's future plans, and I have been unable to come to anything that really satisfied me, so if it's okay with you, I'd like your guys' opinion on this. So, back to the question, then; how exactly are we going to fit Jacoby Ellsbury, David Murphy, Luis Soto, Brandon Moss, and Jason Place into the outfield in the future with Wily Mo Pena at just 24 years old?

Jacoby Ellsbury is 22, and a Johnny Damon-type lefty leadoff guy according to SoxProspects.com, and he's a pretty solid three tool prospect (hit for average, run, and field) who I like the most out of the guys listed. He's projected to get to the majors in mid-2008.

David Murphy is 24, and another lefty bat in the lineup. He's compared to Ryan Langerhans on SoxProspects, and he's another former first-round pick (along with Ellsbury and Place) who should fit into either left or center. He's a production guy instead of a tools guy projected to reach the majors in mid-2007.

Luis Soto is 20 and a switch htiter, which is a big plus, but he, like Ellsbury and Murphy, is also primarily a center fielder. Sounds like he's a four tool prospect (missing hitting for power), but his arm is only described as "above average", and he wasn't drafted. Anyone have an idea why? Juan Encarnacion is his comparison, and he's projected to hit in 2009.

Brandon Moss is 22 and a former Baseball America top 100 prospect who struggled in recent seasons, but should still reach in 2008 as a lefty batter (that makes three lefties so far and one switch hitter.) He's a right fielder who's a one or two tool guy (has "raw power" and a "good arm.")

Finally, Jason Place is just 18 years old and was our first round pick in the 2006 First-Year Player Draft, as you probably already know. He's a five-tool (according to SoxProspects, but some places say three or four), Jeff Francouer-type with low plate discipline and some injury problems. A righty projected to hit in 2010.

I don't think Manny, Wily Mo, or Coco Crisp will be around in 2010 as starters for the Sox (Coco is looking like a one-tool speed guy with average defense, an average arm, low power, and just average contact, Wily Mo has no discipline and isn't a good average hitter or fielder who only hits lefties well, and Manny would just be really, really old), so how do you guys figure they can all fit in? This is the best I've been able to do:

2006: LF - Manny Ramirez, CF - Coco Crisp, RF - Wily Mo Pena
Pretty much nothing changes here, except for that Wily Mo Pena takes over full-time for Trot Nixon in right.
2007: LF - Manny Ramirez, CF - Coco Crisp, RF - Wily Mo Pena (L)/David Murphy (R)
David Murphy breaks into the lineup as a right fielder against righty batters, while the usual lineup remains mostly intact, with Wily Mo facing lefties.
2008: LF - Manny Ramirez, CF - Jacoby Ellsbury, RF - Wily Mo Pena (L)/David Murphy (R)
Ellsbury takes over for Coco Crisp in center, and everything else remains the same.
2009: LF - David Murphy (Manny Ramirez DH?), CF - Jacoby Ellsbury, RF - Brandon Moss
Manny is now 37 or so, so he won't get the same amount of playing time. Wily Mo Pena has probably left, and Brandon Moss, who had 14 assists last year in right, takes over there.
2010: LF - David Murphy, CF - Jacoby Ellsbury, RF - Jason Place
Murphy has more experience than Moss and I believe he will take over in left. Place comes in and relegates Soto and Moss to backup roles.

That's just my opinion, but you guys might know more about when contracts expire and such, as I was just going off of their predicted time into the lineup. But, like I said before, I'd really appreciate it if you guys could help out and just give me (and the rest of the users here) some insight.

[Teddyballgame10]

Quality first post. . .I think your writing Mo Peana off to fast, i think hell be solid for years to come. Your also forgetting that some of these players will be used as trading chips for other team needs. In all its possiable but nothing usally goes that exact to the plan. I do really like Ellsbury though.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I've been thinking this would be a fun topic to discuss. You have to consider the Red Sox will be looking at free agents as well. In order to be a player in the Red Sox outfield you really need to show something and be a top player. My thoughts on those player:

Luis Soto, Brandon Moss, and David Murphy don't quite have what you are looking for on the Red Sox roster. Out of the three I like David Murphy and he is a nice guy to bring in should the Red Sox run into injuries. Down the road I don't see him sticking around.

Jason Place is a guy you just sit back and watch him develop. There is no way to tell at this point if he will be anything good. I would expect him to spend a couple years in A-ball then AA-Portland at 21 years old and AAA-Pawtucket at 22. Chances are things don't go that smoothly.

Jacoby Ellsbury is going to be the real deal (barring injuries) and I would expect him to be the Red Sox CF of the future. When the Red Sox decide for that to occur you can expect Coco Crisp to move to either LF/RF or be traded.

My overall thoughts: Theo Epstein and the Red Sox organization seem to be leaning toward players who are complete ball players. Kevin Youkilis, Trot Nixon, Mike Lowell, etc.....complete players who are top defensive players and good solid hitters. If Willy Mo Pena can turn into that type of player who is solid in the outfield and patient at the plate then he will stick around.

Its almost impossible for us to predict what the Red Sox outfield will look like in 2010 but if I was to guess: CF-Jacoby Ellsbury, LF- Willy Mo Pena, RF-Matt Holliday

[RavenOfProphecy]

Teddyballgame10, thanks for the input. However, I just don't like Pena much because of his apparent laziness and unwillingness to try and improve himself. He's not doing badly this year (.322/.373/.483 in 118 at-bats with four home runs) but he's a career .257 hitter and his career on-base is just .312, well below the league-average .334. He's struck out 326 times in 948 at-bats and has just 65 (65!) walks. He's basically a one-tool power hitter. SchillingIsTheNatural was dead-on when he said that the Red Sox are looking for complete players, and I just don't see Pena as a complete player, but hey, he's young, he's cheap, and there's little risk involved.

I'm not really entirely sold on people like Murphy, Moss, and Soto either, and I would like to see Matt Hilliday here as much as everyone else (although he's a left fielder and Wily Mo is a right fielder, which makes it weird that you projected them in opposite slots, but whatever) but I have a feeling that his home runs totals are vastly inflated by Coors Field.

[CrespoBlows]

Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy

For a while, I've been thinking about how the top prospects in the Red Sox outfield fit into the team's future plans, and I have been unable to come to anything that really satisfied me, so if it's okay with you, I'd like your guys' opinion on this. So, back to the question, then; how exactly are we going to fit Jacoby Ellsbury, David Murphy, Luis Soto, Brandon Moss, and Jason Place into the outfield in the future with Wily Mo Pena at just 24 years old?

Jacoby Ellsbury is 22, and a Johnny Damon-type lefty leadoff guy according to SoxProspects.com, and he's a pretty solid three tool prospect (hit for average, run, and field) who I like the most out of the guys listed. He's projected to get to the majors in mid-2008.

David Murphy is 24, and another lefty bat in the lineup. He's compared to Ryan Langerhans on SoxProspects, and he's another former first-round pick (along with Ellsbury and Place) who should fit into either left or center. He's a production guy instead of a tools guy projected to reach the majors in mid-2007.

Luis Soto is 20 and a switch htiter, which is a big plus, but he, like Ellsbury and Murphy, is also primarily a center fielder. Sounds like he's a four tool prospect (missing hitting for power), but his arm is only described as "above average", and he wasn't drafted. Anyone have an idea why? Juan Encarnacion is his comparison, and he's projected to hit in 2009.

Brandon Moss is 22 and a former Baseball America top 100 prospect who struggled in recent seasons, but should still reach in 2008 as a lefty batter (that makes three lefties so far and one switch hitter.) He's a right fielder who's a one or two tool guy (has "raw power" and a "good arm.")

Finally, Jason Place is just 18 years old and was our first round pick in the 2006 First-Year Player Draft, as you probably already know. He's a five-tool (according to SoxProspects, but some places say three or four), Jeff Francouer-type with low plate discipline and some injury problems. A righty projected to hit in 2010.

I don't think Manny, Wily Mo, or Coco Crisp will be around in 2010 as starters for the Sox (Coco is looking like a one-tool speed guy with average defense, an average arm, low power, and just average contact, Wily Mo has no discipline and isn't a good average hitter or fielder who only hits lefties well, and Manny would just be really, really old), so how do you guys figure they can all fit in? This is the best I've been able to do:

2006: LF - Manny Ramirez, CF - Coco Crisp, RF - Wily Mo Pena
Pretty much nothing changes here, except for that Wily Mo Pena takes over full-time for Trot Nixon in right.
2007: LF - Manny Ramirez, CF - Coco Crisp, RF - Wily Mo Pena (L)/David Murphy (R)
David Murphy breaks into the lineup as a right fielder against righty batters, while the usual lineup remains mostly intact, with Wily Mo facing lefties.
2008: LF - Manny Ramirez, CF - Jacoby Ellsbury, RF - Wily Mo Pena (L)/David Murphy (R)
Ellsbury takes over for Coco Crisp in center, and everything else remains the same.
2009: LF - David Murphy (Manny Ramirez DH?), CF - Jacoby Ellsbury, RF - Brandon Moss
Manny is now 37 or so, so he won't get the same amount of playing time. Wily Mo Pena has probably left, and Brandon Moss, who had 14 assists last year in right, takes over there.
2010: LF - David Murphy, CF - Jacoby Ellsbury, RF - Jason Place
Murphy has more experience than Moss and I believe he will take over in left. Place comes in and relegates Soto and Moss to backup roles.



That's just my opinion, but you guys might know more about when contracts expire and such, as I was just going off of their predicted time into the lineup. But, like I said before, I'd really appreciate it if you guys could help out and just give me (and the rest of the users here) some insight.

Coco Crisp is coming off a broken thumb which is probably hampering his production. Last year, he hit 16 HR's as a 25 year old and posted an OPS higher then Johnny Damon. He already signed a three-year deal to keep him in Boston through 2009. I envision him playing CF or possibly sliding over to LF to make room for Ellsbury. Writing him off as saying he has low power seems a bit rash.

Wily Mo Pena is currently hitting .322, and walking 10% of the time. He's also mashing RH pitching this year, hitting at a .394 clip. He probably won't keep all this up, but if he continues to progress (the kid is only 24 years old) he should be legitimate #4 hitter in any lineup. He might approach the strikeout record, but when you're hitting .280/.330/.570 with 40 HR's, why would you care? Plus, being surronded by Ortiz and Ramirez should help him.

The prospects you listed strike me as fourth outfield types. Murphy might break in as a regular, but not over Pena. Soto was an international free agent, who exhibits little plate discipline, and hasn't shown the power that I keep hearing about. Though, in fairness to Soto, he's been hurt. Moss is another fourth outfielder type. Not enough power for a COF.

Ellsbury and Place maybe the two regulars, but Place is only 18, it's too hard to project him as a big leaguer right now. I'd give him a year then take a guess.

Anyway, if I had to say who'd be in our outfield in 2010, it would be:

LF: Crisp
CF: Ellsbury
RF: Pena

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

The reason Soto wasn't drafted is because he was signed out of the DR I think. He's only 20 and he is supposed to be very toolsy, so I don't think we should be writing him off right now. I really don't think that Moss is part of our future.

[jsinger121]

Soto is a product out of the Dominician. Right now he is struggling a bit in Greenville after coming back from surgery on his hamate bone.

[Teddyballgame10]

Manny and Ortiz will also teach Pena how to be more patient at the plate

[Anuj09]

i see him as Manny's replacement

[DirtDog]

You're assuming all these outfield prospects will pan out. That usually doesn't happen. But if all of them look to turn out to be solid major leaguers, I'd trade 1 or 2 of them for some quality major league starting pitching in order to keep the major league ball club winning.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Ya its way too early to tell if guys like Soto, Moss, Place (especially) will pan out. I think Ellsbury is a pretty safe bet to make the major league roster but the other guys are too raw to say for sure they will have a spot.

[seabeachfred]

Originally Posted by RavenOfProphecy

For a while, I've been thinking about how the top prospects in the Red Sox outfield fit into the team's future plans, and I have been unable to come to anything that really satisfied me, so if it's okay with you, I'd like your guys' opinion on this. So, back to the question, then; how exactly are we going to fit Jacoby Ellsbury, David Murphy, Luis Soto, Brandon Moss, and Jason Place into the outfield in the future with Wily Mo Pena at just 24 years old?

Jacoby Ellsbury is 22, and a Johnny Damon-type lefty leadoff guy according to SoxProspects.com, and he's a pretty solid three tool prospect (hit for average, run, and field) who I like the most out of the guys listed. He's projected to get to the majors in mid-2008.

David Murphy is 24, and another lefty bat in the lineup. He's compared to Ryan Langerhans on SoxProspects, and he's another former first-round pick (along with Ellsbury and Place) who should fit into either left or center. He's a production guy instead of a tools guy projected to reach the majors in mid-2007.

Luis Soto is 20 and a switch htiter, which is a big plus, but he, like Ellsbury and Murphy, is also primarily a center fielder. Sounds like he's a four tool prospect (missing hitting for power), but his arm is only described as "above average", and he wasn't drafted. Anyone have an idea why? Juan Encarnacion is his comparison, and he's projected to hit in 2009.

Brandon Moss is 22 and a former Baseball America top 100 prospect who struggled in recent seasons, but should still reach in 2008 as a lefty batter (that makes three lefties so far and one switch hitter.) He's a right fielder who's a one or two tool guy (has "raw power" and a "good arm.")

Finally, Jason Place is just 18 years old and was our first round pick in the 2006 First-Year Player Draft, as you probably already know. He's a five-tool (according to SoxProspects, but some places say three or four), Jeff Francouer-type with low plate discipline and some injury problems. A righty projected to hit in 2010.

I don't think Manny, Wily Mo, or Coco Crisp will be around in 2010 as starters for the Sox (Coco is looking like a one-tool speed guy with average defense, an average arm, low power, and just average contact, Wily Mo has no discipline and isn't a good average hitter or fielder who only hits lefties well, and Manny would just be really, really old), so how do you guys figure they can all fit in? This is the best I've been able to do:

2006: LF - Manny Ramirez, CF - Coco Crisp, RF - Wily Mo Pena
Pretty much nothing changes here, except for that Wily Mo Pena takes over full-time for Trot Nixon in right.
2007: LF - Manny Ramirez, CF - Coco Crisp, RF - Wily Mo Pena (L)/David Murphy (R)
David Murphy breaks into the lineup as a right fielder against righty batters, while the usual lineup remains mostly intact, with Wily Mo facing lefties.
2008: LF - Manny Ramirez, CF - Jacoby Ellsbury, RF - Wily Mo Pena (L)/David Murphy (R)
Ellsbury takes over for Coco Crisp in center, and everything else remains the same.
2009: LF - David Murphy (Manny Ramirez DH?), CF - Jacoby Ellsbury, RF - Brandon Moss
Manny is now 37 or so, so he won't get the same amount of playing time. Wily Mo Pena has probably left, and Brandon Moss, who had 14 assists last year in right, takes over there.
2010: LF - David Murphy, CF - Jacoby Ellsbury, RF - Jason Place
Murphy has more experience than Moss and I believe he will take over in left. Place comes in and relegates Soto and Moss to backup roles.

That's just my opinion, but you guys might know more about when contracts expire and such, as I was just going off of their predicted time into the lineup. But, like I said before, I'd really appreciate it if you guys could help out and just give me (and the rest of the users here) some insight.

Pretty damn good post Prop. I still have deep reservations about Wily Mo Pena, however. He cannot play right field at Fenway and he couldn't play it at Cincy and he has those enormous strikeout totals to consider. Right now all I am worrying about is this season which Francona is trying to piss away with his throwaway games like today when he rests players even though there is a day off tomorrow. I still think there will be a trade but only hope that Theo makes the right one and doesn't do something to bum our chemistry and the balance we've stuck this year.

[SoxFan25]

well im not really gonna give a guess on whos going to be the OF's of the future but...
i will say that Pena is going to be a pretty damn good player just, will he be doing it in a sox uniform? im not sure how to feel on coco crisp, i mean i like the guy and i like his defense and speed but, i know he can hit alot better than he is now, maybe his finger is still bothering him a bit? When he gets going though watch out. I thought he was going to hit around .310 this year. And as for the guys in the minors right now, well Place if he stays around will be a starter like in 09/2010. Seems like a good prospect to me.
And im really looking forward to seeing Murphy and Ellsbury playing for boston some day.

[Anuj09]

he went 2-3 last night maybe hes heating up

[riverside sluggers]

Moss has shown to be a streaky hitter. He would just be a 4th/5th outfielder if he makes it up to Boston. I just see him as a throw-in for a trade