Lester Rehab

[ksushi]

Why do you bother to compare what guys did at whatever age? Its not relative at all. Just stop, see what happens between now and the end of the year. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but either way you're down right redundant and pretty irritating saying the same thing over and over and over.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by ksushi

Why do you bother to compare what guys did at whatever age? Its not relative at all. Just stop, see what happens between now and the end of the year. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but either way you're down right redundant and pretty irritating saying the same thing over and over and over.

It is not "relative" but it is "relevant" when people are so pumped about these young guys like they are going to be stars. Stars like Oswalt develop quite a bit faster than these guys. That's the point. Sometimes a guy with tremendous talent takes a while to get it together like Randy Johnson, but none of our guys our tremendous talents. In my opinion, they are not on a trajectory to be stars-- none of them. Oswalt is a star. Do you want to dispute that? I discussed what he did at earlier ages to illustrate the career path of a star. As for my redundancy, it annoys you because you disagree with my opinion. Your redundancy annoys me because you are wrong.

[One Red Seat]

If we are just talking about the quality of play, then 700's right, you make that trade every day (assuming it was possible - which I doubt because no-brainers aren't usually true). What has yet to enter the discussion is what salary do you pare to put him on the roster? Like it or not, this team intends to come in right around LT threshold, so in terms of adding elite, established talent, you have to make room somewhere. No Drew? Ok, who plays RF? Crisp is gone? Ok, who plays CF?

It's easy to just sit there and say, I don't care what it costs, but that's not reality. If you want to opine what the GM should do, you need to address all the variables of roster construction. Failure to do that is about the same thing as turning off the "fair trade" button in an MLB video game and romping through a season.

EDIT: For this team to compete with the "no price is too high" team for elite talent in the FA market, they are going to have to have some players making the minimum. Papelbon, Pedroia, and Lester fit that bill, and make this team stronger in the long-haul.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

If we are just talking about the quality of play, then 700's right, you make that trade every day (assuming it was possible - which I doubt because no-brainers aren't usually true). What has yet to enter the discussion is what salary do you pare to put him on the roster? Like it or not, this team intends to come in right around LT threshold, so in terms of adding elite, established talent, you have to make room somewhere. No Drew? Ok, who plays RF? Crisp is gone? Ok, who plays CF?

It's easy to just sit there and say, I don't care what it costs, but that's not reality. If you want to opine what the GM should do, you need to address all the variables of roster construction. Failure to do that is about the same thing as turning off the "fair trade" button in an MLB video game and romping through a season.

I trealize the realities of the situation, but we are only speaking hypothitically here. If you have a chance to get a stud like Andruw Jones, Oswalt etc., you do it and let the pointy headed numbers guys tell you how to make it work. Maybe you salary dump another guy on your roster, restructure a contract, or something else. There are numerous ways to make things work financially when you have the resources of the Red Sox.

[One Red Seat]

Restructure a contract? I can't recall a single instance of that happening for a guy staying on the same team in baseball. Football? Happens every day, but I've only seen it done when someone is getting traded in baseball. I suspect the MLBPA would frown upon that, and they are the most powerful player's association union.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Hindsight is 20-20 on the Oswalt trade. If that trade (Lester, Coco, Hansen and Delcarmen) was proposed today then ya you would do it. But at the time of the trade Lester was one of our best SPs and a top prospect in baseball (5-1 3.49), Hansen looked to be our future CL, Delcarmen looked to potentially be the set-up man and Coco was a 26 yr old OF coming off an injury and a good previous season. As good as Oswalt was(is) I remember thinking that package was too much back then.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

Restructure a contract? I can't recall a single instance of that happening for a guy staying on the same team in baseball. Football? Happens every day, but I've only seen it done when someone is getting traded in baseball. I suspect the MLBPA would frown upon that, and they are the most powerful player's association union.

It was tried in the ARod aborted transaction, but the union stepped in. Don't seize upon the one thing in my statement to try to invalidate it. When it comes to finances and making the numbers work, plenty of things can be done. I am sure that they will make the numbers work if Clemens comes to Boston. When you have a chance to get one of the top players in the game, you go for it. On a 25 man roster, there are plenty of guys that I'd get rid of, dump if it meant getting Andruw Jones or Oswalt on the Roster.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by Rdsxmbnt

Hindsight is 20-20 on the Oswalt trade. If that trade (Lester, Coco, Hansen and Delcarmen) was proposed today then ya you would do it. But at the time of the trade Lester was one of our best SPs and a top prospect in baseball (5-1 3.49), Hansen looked to be our future CL, Delcarmen looked to potentially be the set-up man and Coco was a 26 yr old OF coming off an injury and a good previous season. As good as Oswalt was(is) I remember thinking that package was too much back then.

That's the point. You couldn't do that trade today. Houston is going to want a pitcher with cancer and two bums in the minors for a perennial Cy Young candidate? Although Lester was performing well at the time, he was still a prospect. Oswalt was/is a star. The FO blew it in my opinion. I said it at the time, so there is no hindsight here. What has occurred since has done nothing to prove me wrong. I don't expect that the future performance of these prospects will prove me wrong either.

[One Red Seat]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

It was tried in the ARod aborted transaction, but the union stepped in. Don't seize upon the one thing in my statement to try to invalidate it. When it comes to finances and making the numbers work, plenty of things can be done. I am sure that they will make the numbers work if Clemens comes to Boston. When you have a chance to get one of the top players in the game, you go for it. On a 25 man roster, there are plenty of guys that I'd get rid of, dump if it meant getting Andruw Jones or Oswalt on the Roster.

Ok, so you are dumping people. Who replaces them? If you are going to add salary with some big names, then you pare it down by dropping some lesser names and calling kids up who make the minimum. Of course, you just traded away the best kids to get the big names, so you are bringing up lesser prospects with more flaws and less talent. Color me unimpressed with that philosophy. I think you get some elite players, like they have now, and you surround them with a supporting staff with less deficiencies. That's just me.

[a700hitter]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

Ok, so you are dumping people. Who replaces them? If you are going to add salary with some big names, then you pare it down by dropping some lesser names and calling kids up who make the minimum. Of course, you just traded away the best kids to get the big names, so you are bringing up lesser prospects with more flaws and less talent.

That's where the talent of your scouting and management comes into play. Talent below the top tier stars is what they are paid to evaluate, and it is where they are paid to find the bargains. Top tier star talent is unique. You can't get it cheaply,and it doesn't take a whole lot of scouting or management skill to recognize it for what it is. When you have the opportunity to get it, you go and get it and utilize the talents of the FO to get the best support staff to go with them. Front Offices of teams like Oakland with limited budgets have done great jobs of building competitive teams. After taking on a star like an Oswalt, Andruw Jones or Helton or all of the them for that matter, the Red Sox would still have more of a the budget than the A's. That's where the FO needs to earn its money. You are accepting of an under performing FO that has been overpaying for mediocre talent. That's unimpressive. Good management pays for the unique star talent and it finds bargains and value among the rest of the pool. Star talent doesn't come at a discount, and the big markets can afford more of it than the other teams. The reason that they haven't been more successful isn't because they sign too many stars. It's because they have not spent wisely for the talent below star level.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Lester making his first start in AAA since the forearm:

3.2 IP, 1 hit, 0 ER, 1 BB, 2 Ks (he had a 50 pitch limit)

Hansen pitches another scoreless inning

[One Red Seat]

Through 4 vs. Syracuse

1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 1 K -- 44 pitches

through 5

3 H, 1 R, 1 BB, 1K -- 65 pitches

EDIT: Evening over. Mmm'bop comes in and tosses a perfect 6th, no K's though.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Lesters final line: 5.0 IP, 3 hits, 1 ER, 1 BB, 1 K

[One Red Seat]

Tonight vs. the Clippers

5 IP, 4 H, 0 R, 2 BB, 6 K, 79 pitches

[Rdsxmbnt]

Nice outing