Clutch vs non-clutch

[Slasher9]

Anyone who is getting paid to do a job, is expected to do the job, even when there is pressure.

i'm getting paid to do a job and here i am spending that time typing in this thread.....

[Slasher9]

S5, cp, and Slasher (there may be others) have all taken the position that clutch is something more than just the absence of choke. They have all said to one extent or another that the players raise their game during clutch moments.

i will 100% state that certain players will raise their game during bright lights moments. does "raising their game" always equate to a walkoff HR? no. but they have a unique ability to feed off the big moment, increase their focus, enter the zone, clear the mechanism.....

[cp176]

i will 100% state that certain players will raise their game during bright lights moments. does "raising their game" always equate to a walkoff HR? no. but they have a unique ability to feed off the big moment, increase their focus, enter the zone, clear the mechanism.....

I know that this is true. I would just add that it can be a big play on the bases or in the field. Best players are not always the best hitters.

[mvp 78]

i'm getting paid to do a job and here i am spending that time typing in this thread.....

You sonuvabitch! I can't believe you right now. I'm just disgusted.

[Kimmi]

Here's something about 'randomness': it is a huge factor in baseball, and it does explain a lot of things. But sometimes it turns out to be the wrong explanation for something too. We've seen it happen a number of times that a pitcher has a rough outing or two, and at first you think it was just a randomness thing, but then they examine him and find out he's got an injury and probably had it in those bad outings. 'Randomness' is kind of a one-size-fits-all explanation that gets applied to everything.

No doubt.

Randomness is not the answer to everything. I know I use the term a lot, but I also understand that there are things going on in baseball that have explanations that are just not 'discovered' yet. I don't believe clutch is one of those things though.

[Kimmi]

Being psyched out may not be choking, but it can have the same results.

I have stated many times that mental and emotional factors do affect performance. I can't prove it, but I firmly believe it. It might be a fine line, but IF Price is pitching poorly in the post season due to psychological reasons, I don't see it as choking. IMO, it's more along the lines of a batter who starts pressing when he's in a slump.

[Kimmi]

"It could be any number of things, just not the one thing I think it isn't."

I'm going with the statistical evidence on this one. If you show me strong statistical evidence that rules out any of the other number of things, then we can narrow the list even further.

[Kimmi]

Hey Kimmi. i think you are being rhetorical here but i will try and answer as to my thoughts. i never said players dont focus in late innings only. i would guess that this early in the season the hitters are still shaking off some rust and the 3rd or 4th time up in a game they are feeling more comfortable. we also arent facing the starter in the 8th or 9th.....

Well, I can live with all of that. That is not the same as some of the other things you were claiming.

[mvp 78]

I have stated many times that mental and emotional factors do affect performance. I can't prove it, but I firmly believe it. It might be a fine line, but IF Price is pitching poorly in the post season due to psychological reasons, I don't see it as choking. IMO, it's more along the lines of a batter who starts pressing when he's in a slump.

I don't see the difference.

[mvp 78]

To me, psyching yourself out is choking.

[Slasher9]

Well, I can live with all of that. That is not the same as some of the other things you were claiming.

postseason. those are my claims. i think? I have been pretty consistent with that.....

[georom4]

Sabermetrics has done more than anything to diminish the game to mere numbers and happenstance. This is not only wrong, but also self-defeating as a fan. The joy of following pro sports is to be able to experience the games dramatic moments and root for the player of their choosing. Knowledgeable fans understand the strengths and weaknesses of any given situation. When someone rises above it, do we really want to attribute it to mere probability? I'd rather go inside that players head and heart and watch him deliver under pressure. This is the very definition of clutch. Hitting a baseball is the toughest thing to do in sports. Those who do it well, and in big games, are not just lucky. For example WADE BOGGS. He was a hitting machine, right? I have a friend that couldn't stand him for that very reason. His post season averages were just ordinary. That guy wasn't unlucky in big games. He just shrunk during tense moments. Then there's Big Papi...case closed

[moonslav59]

People who love stats, numbers and metrics can also greatly enjoy the game for what it is: the greatest game on earth!

I'm not sure why some think being a stat geek and being able to enjoy the game are not compatible.

[mvp 78]

People who love stats, numbers and metrics can also greatly enjoy the game for what it is: the greatest game on earth!

I'm not sure why some think being a stat geek and being able to enjoy the game are not compatible.

Because whenever someone says something like "that guy is clutch," stat heads just come down on them like a wet blanket.

[moonslav59]

Because whenever someone says something like "that guy is clutch," stat heads just come down on them like a wet blanket.

So, how does that translate to us not enjoying a walk off HR by Papi?