Bullpen Concerns

[Jayhawk Bill]

Originally Posted by ksushi

In jacko's defense, if I had been a Yankee fan and Lester was a yankee, my unceasing love for him would have been ripped apart all over this board when he first came up. Similar to Lester's early goings, Kennedy looks like he sucks.

Lester's very worst stretch would have been his last seven starts of 2006. He'd started 5-0 with a 2.38 ERA, but then he went 2-2 with a 7.75 ERA.

But...

1) That was just one month, July 23 to August 23, after which we got word that he'd been pitching with serious cancer, a reason for the poor performance, and

2) Lester only took two losses in seven games--he won twice and kept Boston in the game three other times.

Ian Kennedy has sucked for over two months in 2008, he's yet to record a win, the Yankees have only eventually won two games of the nine he's started, and he doesn't have a health excuse. He didn't even have the good sense to go crack his eighth rib to create an excuse for his sucking--he's just sucked.

[BoSox21]

Lester did struggle early on in his career but I wouldn't compare his 7-2, 4.76 ERA rookie year with Kennedy's 0-3, 7.4something ERA

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk Bill

Lester's very worst stretch would have been his last seven starts of 2006. He'd started 5-0 with a 2.38 ERA, but then he went 2-2 with a 7.75 ERA.

But...

1) That was just one month, July 23 to August 23, after which we got word that he'd been pitching with serious cancer, a reason for the poor performance, and

2) Lester only took two losses in seven games--he won twice and kept Boston in the game three other times.

Ian Kennedy has sucked for over two months in 2008, he's yet to record a win, the Yankees have only eventually won two games of the nine he's started, and he doesn't have a health excuse. He didn't even have the good sense to go crack his eighth rib to create an excuse for his sucking--he's just sucked.

you are too smart a guy to have made such a dumb post

[ksushi]

Originally Posted by Jayhawk Bill

Lester's very worst stretch would have been his last seven starts of 2006. He'd started 5-0 with a 2.38 ERA, but then he went 2-2 with a 7.75 ERA.

But...

1) That was just one month, July 23 to August 23, after which we got word that he'd been pitching with serious cancer, a reason for the poor performance, and

2) Lester only took two losses in seven games--he won twice and kept Boston in the game three other times.

Ian Kennedy has sucked for over two months in 2008, he's yet to record a win, the Yankees have only eventually won two games of the nine he's started, and he doesn't have a health excuse. He didn't even have the good sense to go crack his eighth rib to create an excuse for his sucking--he's just sucked.

I think the difference between both of their early numbers is that Lester was lucky to get bailed out of situations that poor performance led him to, and Kennedy is left out to dry by a bullpen that for the most part is unreliable at best. To me, that is a key difference. They were similarly poor in their early performance and I know Lester was unbeaten for quite some time but W-L record is never a tell tale stat when it comes to judging a pitchers performance.

Lesters WHIP numbers and total innings in those first five starts should be pretty telling when it comes to judging exactly what kind of pitcher he was in that stretch. I can tell you, as a big Lester fan when he was in the minors, I was not very impressed with the difference I saw in his performance at the major league level.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch

you are too smart a guy to have made such a dumb post

You just made a dumb post.

Kennedy sucks worse than Lester at his cancer-stricken worst...BTW, I forgot to mention that AL offense is down 8.2% from Lester's worst days to today, Kennedy's worst days.

Failing to see how badly Kennedy is doing is either an exercise in ignorance or a denial of the realities involved.

[BoSox21]

I think anyone who knows a baseball from a bowling ball would take the 2006 Jon Lester over the 2008 Ian Kennedy

[Jayhawk Bill]

Originally Posted by ksushi

I think the difference between both of their early numbers is that Lester was lucky to get bailed out of situations that poor performance led him to, and Kennedy is left out to dry by a bullpen that for the most part is unreliable at best. To me, that is a key difference. They were similarly poor in their early performance and I know Lester was unbeaten for quite some time but W-L record is never a tell tale stat when it comes to judging a pitchers performance.

Lesters WHIP numbers and total innings in those first five starts should be pretty telling when it comes to judging exactly what kind of pitcher he was in that stretch. I can tell you, as a big Lester fan when he was in the minors, I was not very impressed with the difference I saw in his performance at the major league level.

Which first five starts?

***

Part of the issue with Lester in July-August 2006 was a high BABIP allowed from the worst Boston defense in recent years. Lester's rough BABIP allowed in those games ( (H-HR)/(BFP-BB-SO-HR) ) was .392, roughly 90 points worse than any MLB pitcher would post over the long run. Part was hitter-friendly summertime weather. A big part was comparing Lester to our hopes from AA and AAA; part was comparing him to his 5-0 record up until 23 July, 2006, the day he started to suck.

Look at the stats...and look at the aggregate run support as a guide to the weather in which Lester was pitching, unless you want to check actual weather conditions game by game instead.

[ksushi]

I just know what I saw was not promising from the get go. No control, no buckling down. There were bright spots, sure, especially either one hit innings against the royals and ten K's against the mets.

My point is simple, if Lester were a Yankee, and I a Yanks fan, the way I held out hope for him would have been beat up just as much as any Yankee fan currently holding out hope for Kennedy. It is pretty similar. That said, Lester was always the better pitcher and comparing the two is giving Kennedy too much credit.

's all i'm sayin'

[BoSox21]

its just hard to see anything in Kennedy that leads anyone to be optimistic he will ever be able to get major league hitters out on a consistent basis, unless he ever develops the control of Greg Maddux

[Jayhawk Bill]

Originally Posted by ksushi

My point is simple, if Lester were a Yankee, and I a Yanks fan, the way I held out hope for him would have been beat up just as much as any Yankee fan currently holding out hope for Kennedy. It is pretty similar. That said, Lester was always the better pitcher and comparing the two is giving Kennedy too much credit.

's all i'm sayin'

Thus qualified, no problem...for just that one month, July 23 - August 23, 2006.

[a700hitter]

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...cast_remo.html

Ortiz has had his cast removed. He's pain free and ready to begin range of motion exercises. This is certainly good news. The news on Schilling is discouraging.

[Gom]

Originally Posted by BoSox21

I think anyone who knows a baseball from a bowling ball would take the 2006 Jon Lester over the 2008 Ian Kennedy

I'd take Carl Pavano over Kennedy. Ok..maybe that's a stretch, but not by much.

[One Red Seat]

Originally Posted by Gom

I'd take Carl Pavano over Kennedy. Ok..maybe that's a stretch, but not by much.

Careful, if it's a stretch he might pull something.

[bosoxnation07]

Originally Posted by a700hitter

http://www.boston.com/sports/basebal...cast_remo.html

Ortiz has had his cast removed. He's pain free and ready to begin range of motion exercises. This is certainly good news. The news on Schilling is discouraging.

Honestly, I am expecting little to nothing from Schilling this season. I know the competitor in Schilling wants to go, but I think he might have finally reached the age where your body just says no. You might get a couple good starts from him, but I just don't think he can do it consistantly. Got nothing but Love for him, but any pitches off the ML mound from him has to be considered a plus and not a guranteed thing.

[yeszir]

Originally Posted by One Red Seat

Careful, if it's a stretch he might pull something.

Pitchers should never have to stretch. I'm all for golf carts from the dugout to the mound.