Bullpen Concerns

[Sweet Chin Music33]

I tried searching for a previous thread with the title, could not find one to bump, so I guess Ill start one.

Early in the season, but certainly one of the weaknesses that is starting to show its ugly head.

David Aardsma looked good this spring, and had a solid performance so far through 3 games (I know its only 3, still). I think he stays.

Brian Corey has been pretty good, but I doubt he sticks with the team all year. Eventually he will be bumped.

Manny Delcarmen-An enigma, plus stuff, plus arm....doesnt always translate. His career numbers over 100 games are pretty good, very good actually.....but he continues to frustrate me.

Javier Lopez-sucks....but getting ride of him leaves only 1 lefty in the pen. Hes gotta be replaced, but I think his replacement will have to be another lefty especially considering Oki isnt a real lefty specialist, I think he actually had reverse splits.

Paps- nothing has to be said.

Oki- same as Paps, obviously hell drop off a little since he was insane last year, and asking him to repeat is unfair.

Yoyo-swingman, should not be counted on in tight spots.

Timlin-cannot rely on him to be the setup guy anymore. How much does he have left? I think he can be very good in spots, but 60 games from him is asking too much and wearing his abilities too thin at this point i think.

That is not a promising evaluation of their bullpen. Something has to give. I think best case scenario is that Colon comes aboard and really does well enough in the rotation allowing Clay to pitch in the bullpen, but in the long term, would Clay be better served pitching in the rotation in AAA, or pitching a couple of innings a week with the big club?

If Delcarmen does not step up and become the setup guy.....I think the bullpen is in trouble. I know Oki is great and all....but I think a successful bullpen has 2 setup men....a righty and lefty like back in the days of Embree and Timlin.

[das11209]

I think we should start a thread 'TEAM CONCERNS'. Team has sucked on hitting, starting and relieve pitching and defense.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Originally Posted by das11209

I think we should start a thread 'TEAM CONCERNS'. Team has sucked on hitting, starting and relieve pitching and defense.

And management, coaching, and intangibles. And clubhouse atmosphere and public relations. There's got to be a root cause--I blame the loss of Tina Cervasio.

***

BP has something called "Current Adjusted Standings" which includes a won-lost record based upon difficulty-adjusted Pythag projection of W-L based upon actual hits and walks, not runs scored and allowed...think of it as a best approximation of how well the team has played. That third-order won-lost for Boston is 3.9 - 3.1...a .557 W-L Pct. That would put Boston on track for a 90-win season, not what we hope for but certainly nothing about which to panic yet.

Boston's pitching has had three problems in this very short season: Snyder, Corey, and Beckett. Snyder is gone. Corey will be gone. Beckett wasn't getting the same strike zone as Halladay (check the Pitch F/X on MLB Gameday if you want to see--I count nine balls called as strikes for Toronto's pitchers yesterday). I see no serious trouble yet, as long as our expectations are reasonable.

[BoSox21]

Originally Posted by Sweet Chin Music33

Timlin-cannot rely on him to be the setup guy anymore. How much does he have left? I think he can be very good in spots, but 60 games from him is asking too much and wearing his abilities too thin at this point i think.

Timlin isn't being relied on as the setup guy anymore but I see no reason why he can't be a reliable reliever. Everyone thought he was done two years ago and he had a solid year last year. MDC and Oki are the primary setup men.

[MANNYHOF24]

Originally Posted by das11209

I think we should start a thread 'TEAM CONCERNS'. Team has sucked on hitting, starting and relieve pitching and defense.

It's really pathetic that you can judge a team that has played a weeks worth of games, not to mention that it was in three countries including Japan. I think Tuesday is when the real evaluations can begin.

[das11209]

Originally Posted by MANNYHOF24

It's really pathetic that you can judge a team that has played a weeks worth of games, not to mention that it was in three countries including Japan. I think Tuesday is when the real evaluations can begin.

Have you read what I said - it was an analysis of what they have done so far. Do you disagree with me on how they have played so far ( and I realise it is just 1 week)? It may/may not indicative of what they might accomplish for the rest of the season.

[TheKilo]

Originally Posted by MANNYHOF24

It's really pathetic that you can judge a team that has played a weeks worth of games, not to mention that it was in three countries including Japan. I think Tuesday is when the real evaluations can begin.

You were the person advocating getting Jorge fucking Cantu to play second last year.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Perhaps a darkhorse for the bullpen at some point this season....

Dustin Richardson just started for Portland

5.0 inning, 2 hits, 1 earned run, 3 walks, 10 K

[jacksonianmarch]

Originally Posted by BoSox21

Timlin isn't being relied on as the setup guy anymore but I see no reason why he can't be a reliable reliever. Everyone thought he was done two years ago and he had a solid year last year. MDC and Oki are the primary setup men.

Timlin was one hell of a reliever, but he has proven that big workloads arent good for him these days. In a limited role, even as a setup man a few times a week, he can do. But if you start using him in consecutive games or set him up for a big workload then you'll see him suck.

I have a feeling that Oki will come back to earth a bit and MDC will step it up into the setup role.

[Sweet Chin Music33]

Originally Posted by BoSox21

Timlin isn't being relied on as the setup guy anymore but I see no reason why he can't be a reliable reliever. Everyone thought he was done two years ago and he had a solid year last year. MDC and Oki are the primary setup men.

Yeah, I have those same feelings. Hopefully MDC can pull through and this doesnt snowball on him.

[Sweet Chin Music33]

Timlin and Tavarez were horrendous last night.

Tavarez has walked 5 in 7 IP and has a WHIP of 1.96.....horrendous for a relief pitcher. Hes already been in 5 games, or 1/7th of his appearances last season. I think there is some serious concern here.

Timlins been in 4 games and cant get anyone out. Hes given up 8 hits in 2 innings. Incredible. He has a WHIP of 4.29, stupendous. People argue that hes been up at down.....but he really hasnt, hes been awful:
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_...348&statType=2

Aardsma had been very good on the other hand, maybe a surprise to some of us, I really pulled for him in spring training, as he had a good spring and obviously deserved a spot on the roster ahead of Snyder.

Throw Javier (I cant believe someone is paying me to look like a specialist) Lopez in to this mix and his cool 1.93 Whip (ya, so much for specialist) and they have really been terrible.

DelCarmen is still a headache, and as painful as he is sometimes, he still puts up the numbers.

Paps and Oki.....smooth sailing.

I think Crisp moves sooner than later, for an arm.

[Mr Crunchy]

Did I miss something here?
They're 9-7 after playing Oakland for 4 on the road,3 in Toronto then dealing with 3 teams who are projected to make the playoffs in NY Det and Cleveland.
Theyre in 1st place with Ortiz hitting .050 with no power,Lowell Dl'd and the table setters underachieving.

i tend to look at the negatives as much as anyone but I am not worried about our perfomance as we're in 1st place inspite of the world wide tour and the early scheduling against the iron of the american league.

if they're 2 games over .500 come August then I'll worry but based on what we've seen so far I am sleeping ok

[Sweet Chin Music33]

Originally Posted by Mr Crunchy

Did I miss something here?
They're 9-7 after playing Oakland for 4 on the road,3 in Toronto then dealing with 3 teams who are projected to make the playoffs in NY Det and Cleveland.
Theyre in 1st place with Ortiz hitting .050 with no power,Lowell Dl'd and the table setters underachieving.

i tend to look at the negatives as much as anyone but I am not worried about our perfomance as we're in 1st place inspite of the world wide tour and the early scheduling against the iron of the american league.

if they're 2 games over .500 come August then I'll worry but based on what we've seen so far I am sleeping ok

I understand its a small sample size, but it is a legetimate concern. I think Ortiz will be fine, as others do....but the fact is, Mike Timlin is now what 42?, Tavarez is also getting older and all the innings and appearances and roles hes had in his career may be catching up to him......Lopez, no more needs to be said about him bc hes always sucked. Those are 3 spots in a pitching staff 25-30% of the staff depending on how many you base it on.......and 50-60% of the bullpen depending on how many they are carrying at any time.

[Mr Crunchy]

considering that the starters have yet to go 8ip,never mind a complete game,becks missing a couple starts,schill out and lester and bucky not performing as well as they should be i am willing to give it some time to work itself out.Dice needs to do better,bottom line is he isnt attacking the hitters as he should..117 pitches in 5 fucking innings is sad.
we have depth but not consistancy yet.
aardma has been better than advertised
timlin is an every other day guy and will be more consistant
tavares needs to be used in the same way and lopez is lopez.
mdc is in a make or break year as far as im concerned
hes been here long enough to know the a.l hitters and whats expected of him late in the game...with him,oki and paps and more consistancy from the other guys we're ok.
if not we can move on Eric Gagne

[Sweet Chin Music33]

Originally Posted by Mr Crunchy

considering that the starters have yet to go 8ip,never mind a complete game,becks missing a couple starts,schill out and lester and bucky not performing as well as they should be i am willing to give it some time to work itself out.Dice needs to do better,bottom line is he isnt attacking the hitters as he should..117 pitches in 5 fucking innings is sad.
we have depth but not consistancy yet.
aardma has been better than advertised
timlin is an every other day guy and will be more consistant
tavares needs to be used in the same way and lopez is lopez.
mdc is in a make or break year as far as im concerned
hes been here long enough to know the a.l hitters and whats expected of him late in the game...with him,oki and paps and more consistancy from the other guys we're ok.
if not we can move on Eric Gagne

I agree with most of this, except MDC. MDC may be in a make or break year in terms of becoming a setup man on a championship caliber team, but he has already proven his value in terms of a good relief pitcher, its just whether or not he can be trusted when the game is on line like Oki is.