Ellsbury's Fielding - Talksox

a700hitter · 10-25-2009, 01:51 AM

From today's Boston Herald:

Quote:

Ellsbury a liability?

Defensive statistics are getting better each and every season. Before long, John Dewan’s and Bill James’ plus/minus and runs-saved stat, as well as FanGraphs.com’s UZR rating system, are going to be tossed around like OBP and OPS numbers are now.

One surprise that emerged from the 2009 defensive stats, however, was just how poorly Red Sox center fielder Jacoby Ellsbury [stats] fared. His ratings placed him below average, which does not square with what regular observers of Ellsbury saw this year.

While terrific catches can sometimes be the result of outstanding speed making up for poor routes or bad reads off the bat, Ellsbury’s defensive numbers did not square with the Sox’ internal evaluations. He is an average fielder at worst right now, and internally, the club believes he should improve as a center fielder. One area that needs improvement is reading the flight of balls when he comes in or goes back. Side to side, he is better.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/b...ired_up_early/

IMO, he goes back on balls better than he comes in on balls. He should be playing more shallow to compensate for his weakness coming in on balls. Vlad's winning hit in game 3 of the ALDS should have been caught. Ellsbury was playing way too deep and as usual his jump was very late.

bsox0407 · 10-25-2009, 02:47 AM

he had his worst year by far any of the others.

HE HAD 2 ERRORS this year. that is also his career total. he is a solid defender. he may not read the ball as well as the other CF but he is still pretty damn good and is still improving.

I also agree with you.

**msubulldogs21** · 10-25-2009, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsox0407

HE HAD 2 ERRORS this year.

You can't just measure defense by how many errors someone commits.

bsox0407 · 10-25-2009, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msubulldogs21

You can't just measure defense by how many errors someone commits.

i know but still that is a pretty good year. Ichiro had 4 errors. but Ellsbury is a good defender and can only get better.

Dipre · 10-25-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsox0407

i know but still that is a pretty good year. Ichiro had 4 errors. but Ellsbury is a good defender and can only get better.

How many errors a player commits is the absolutely worst way to measure defensive efficiency.

a700hitter · 10-25-2009, 10:53 AM

What are your thoughts about having him play more shallow in CF? I think it would help.

Dipre · 10-25-2009, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a700hitter

What are your thoughts about having him play more shallow in CF? I think it would help.

It should.

He's awful running down balls to his front, and he has the speed to reach the track from shallow CF, so why not give it a try?

a700hitter · 10-25-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dipre

It should.

He's awful running down balls to his front, and he has the speed to reach the track from shallow CF, so why not give it a try?

Paul Blair used to play very shallow. It was almost impossible to drop something in front of him. If you tried to beat him, he could track down almost anything over his head. Ellsbury gets back on balls very well, and let's face it, there isn't that far to go in left center. I'd have him come in about 3 or 4 steps.

Dipre · 10-25-2009, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a700hitter

Paul Blair used to play very shallow. It was almost impossible to drop something in front of him. If you tried to beat him, he could track down almost anything over his head. Ellsbury gets back on balls very well, and let's face it, there isn't that far to go in left center. I'd have him come in about 3 or 4 steps.

So did Andruw Jones and Jim Edmonds in their fielding prime, and so does Torii Hunter.

bsox0407 · 10-25-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msubulldogs21

You can't just measure defense by how many errors someone commits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsox0407

i know but still that is a pretty good year. Ichiro had 4 errors. but Ellsbury is a good defender and can only get better.

what was saying is that he is still an above average outfielder. he may lack the range that others do but he is still playing in a smaller ballpark that helps his range. his range coming toward home is below average. he should work throughout the offseason on this.

BSN07 · 10-25-2009, 01:13 PM

BJ Upton plays about as shallow in CF as I have seen. But he gets great jumps and reads balls very well.

Spudboy · 10-25-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsox0407

what was saying is that he is still an above average outfielder. he may lack the range that others do but he is still playing in a smaller ballpark that helps his range. his range coming toward home is below average. he should work throughout the offseason on this.

What?

No one is saying anything about Ellsbury's range.

You must be confusing range with a player's ability to read the ball coming off the bat and getting a good break on the ball. That IS a deficiency in his game. That, and of course, his Damonesque (sp) arm.

His tremendous speed, overall athleticism, and a willingness to fling himself perilously at balls enable him to make some spectacular plays.

Overall, as I've said several times on this board, he is a work in progress.

bsox0407 · 10-25-2009, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spudboy

What?

No one is saying anything about Ellsbury's range.

You must be confusing range with a player's ability to read the ball coming off the bat and getting a good break on the ball. That IS a deficiency in his game. That, and of course, his Damonesque (sp) arm.

His tremendous speed, overall athleticism, and a willingness to fling himself perilously at balls enable him to make some spectacular plays.

Overall, as I've said several times on this board, he is a work in progress.

that is what i meant. the way i said range was to be said as the breaks not on his specific range. my bad for the confusion. i think his arm is not as bad as Damon. at least he doesn't throw like a faggot like damon does or a fairy boy like Swisher.

Sweet Chin Music33 · 10-27-2009, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dipre

How many errors a player commits is the absolutely worst way to measure defensive efficiency.

Except for infielders.

Jose Offerman and his 42 errors at SS in 1992.
Dick Stuart and his 29 errors at 1B in 1963.
Butch Hobson and his 43 errors at 3B in 1978.

How the hell do you make 29 errors at 1B!!!!!!!!!

Errors isnt always the worst way to measure it, when you suck......boy you suck!

(this post is done in comedic fashion)

Dipre · 10-27-2009, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Chin Music33

Except for infielders.

Jose Offerman and his 42 errors at SS in 1992.
Dick Stuart and his 29 errors at 1B in 1963.
Butch Hobson and his 43 errors at 3B in 1978.

How the hell do you make 29 errors at 1B!!!!!!!!!

Errors isnt always the worst way to measure it, when you suck......boy you suck!

(this post is done in comedic fashion)

Yet speaks the truth, at least in Offerman's case lol.