Ben Cherington

[Gringo]

Can't say I'd be too thrilled with him getting bumped up. He'd be Lucchino's Ball Boy, and just a holdover from a failed system....

Lucchino was ready to push Theo overboard back in 2005, but public sentiment jammed up his plans. Now he can exert total control...there is no way the GM and manager are going to have much of a say in anything.

Lucchino finally has the power he's wanted.

[Dojji]

Mmh. I'm inclined to agree. We need a more fundamental change to the culture of the team than this, I think The crack is narrow, but it's very deep, You won't fix it with a little epoxy and a fresh coat of paint.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Well gotta get used to it.

Red Sox To Name Ben Cherington GM
By Ben Nicholson-Smith [October 13 at 1:33pm CST]
The Red Sox are calling on Theo Epstein's top assistant to restore order in Boston. They have told assistant general manager Ben Cherington that he'll be the team's next GM, according to Yahoo's Tim Brown. Cherington will assume the responsibilities of the GM once the Cubs and Red Sox finalize the arrangement that will send Epstein to Chicago.

Cherington started his baseball career with the Indians in 1998. He joined the Red Sox under Dan Duquette and worked extensively with Epstein, who he considers a mentor.

"I learned more [from Epstein] about the game and people and how to get things done and how to do all of that with a sense of humor and compassion," Cherington told me in August. "It has made me a better person and if I’m ever lucky enough to be a GM it’ll make me a much better GM."

Cherington has experience as an area scout and has also worked on player acquisitions, arbitration and quantitative analysis. His first job as a general manager will begin with a search for manager Terry Francona's replacement.

I have no idea why you guys don't want another Theo at the helms. I guess two World Series titles in an 8 year span isn't successful enough?

Theo's philosophy and execution in both drafting and trades were second to none. His only downfall was FA signings, and regardless of those, his other attributes more than made up for the bad signings.

Before the 2011 season began, Theo discussed that he thought the team needed more SP depth, and that was one of their biggest weaknesses. If you don't think he attempted every possible angle at addressing that need, you're wrong. By the time all of the injuries hit, and the regulars became ineffective (September), all of the depth had bailed for greener pastures (Millwood) because they had opt-out clauses.

Guys like Drake Britton, Felix Doubront, and Stolmy Pimentel took leaps backwards, and so some of the depth that we thought we had going into the season wasn't there in the end.

Despite what a lot of people on this website think, this isn't MLB The Show, where Theo can go into the options and turn the "Force Trade" option on. The trade has to be mutually beneficial. He can't go into Create-A-Player and just make someone up out if pixie dust. The talent has to be there. And it wasn't, and he didn't want to get raked over the coals in a trade that would have cost this team the future.

Theo was, and is, an elite GM, and we were absolutely lucky and fortunate to have him so long. The fact that we're now given a guy who progressed by watching Theo work and can replicate his philosophy is nothing short of excellent for this organization.

[pumpsie green]

Before the 2011 season began, Theo discussed that he thought the team needed more SP depth, and that was one of their biggest weaknesses. If you don't think he attempted every possible angle at addressing that need, you're wrong

The bottom line is that he failed to correct the problem. Thats on him. Period.

His only downfall was FA signings, and regardless of those, his other attributes more than made up for the bad signings.

Interesting opinion. I would not call wasting nearly a third of a billion dollars on FA busts acceptable in any way, regardless of what other areas he did well in. I would grade him a "C" overall as a GM. Sure he brought us two rings (which we would not have won without Manny Ramirez and Josh Beckett, two guys he had little or nothing to do with obtaining), but his waste of money that could have been spent far more wisely outweighs any success he had in other areas....IMO.

[Gringo]

IS he another Theo? CAN he replicate the positive things Theo was able to accomplish? We don't know that. What we DO know is that he's a holdover from a management regime that crashed and burned, and if people are in relative agreement that it's best that Theo move on, then it would seem safe to say that Cherington should as well, or at best maintain his current position.

I just think the club needs a GM from outside the organization. But that isn't going to happen. Larry has his Yes Man in Cherington, and that's that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Originally Posted by pumpsie green;705654;

Before the 2011 season began, Theo discussed that he thought the team needed more SP depth, and that was one of their biggest weaknesses. If you don't think he attempted every possible angle at addressing that need, you're wrong

The bottom line is that he failed to correct the problem. Thats on him. Period.

You can't correct a problem when the solution is not available. Can you give me $20 when you only have $10? No. So how can he get pitching depth when there was none available?

I swear, some people would complain if we won the World Series in 5 games instead of a sweep.

Originally Posted by pumpsie green;705654;

His only downfall was FA signings, and regardless of those, his other attributes more than made up for the bad signings.

Interesting opinion. I would not call wasting nearly a third of a billion dollars on FA busts acceptable in any way, regardless of what other areas he did well in. I would grade him a "C" overall as a GM. Sure he brought us two rings (which we would not have won without Manny Ramirez and Josh Beckett, two guys he had little or nothing to do with obtaining), but his waste of money that could have been spent far more wisely outweighs any success he had in other areas....IMO.

Really? A "C"? I mean, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ortiz, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Papelbon, Gonzo. And you're giving him a "C" because of some bad FA signings?

Wow.

[pumpsie green]

You can't correct a problem when the solution is not available. Can you give me $20 when you only have $10? No. So how can he get pitching depth when there was none available?

Excuse me, but isn't that his job? To identify and correct personel problems so that the team is competitive? What you have provided is excuses, and frankly, the excuse routine is getting old. I would have liked to see results. If he cannot do his job, its time to get someone who can.

Really? A "C"? I mean, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ortiz, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Papelbon, Gonzo. And you're giving him a "C" because of some bad FA signings?

Wow.

You're right: a "C" is being far too generous:

Busts
SS Edgar Renteria (2004, 4 years, $40 million)
RHP Matt Clement (2004, 3 years, $25.8 million)
SS Julio Lugo (2006, 4 years, $36 million)
RHP Daisuke Matsuzaka (2006, 6 years, $52 million plus $51 million posting fee)
RHP Brad Penny (2008, 1 year, $5 million)
RHP John Smoltz (2009, 1 year, $5.5 million)
RHP John Lackey (2009, 5 years, $82.5 million)
OF Mike Cameron (2009, 2 years, $15.5 million)
RHP Bobby Jenks (2 years, $12 million)

[pumpsie green]

Originally Posted by Gringo;705655;

IS he another Theo? CAN he replicate the positive things Theo was able to accomplish? We don't know that. What we DO know is that he's a holdover from a management regime that crashed and burned, and if people are in relative agreement that it's best that Theo move on, then it would seem safe to say that Cherington should as well, or at best maintain his current position.

I just think the club needs a GM from outside the organization. But that isn't going to happen. Larry has his Yes Man in Cherington, and that's that.

Cherington is a mistake IMO, but I am willing to cut him some slack and give him two years max to produce results. If he starts behaving like his former boss, he is fair game for criticism. It would be far better to completely demolish the management structure and start over with new policies and new attitudes. That won't happen, most likely, but its the smartest thing to do IMO.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Originally Posted by pumpsie green;705662;

You can't correct a problem when the solution is not available. Can you give me $20 when you only have $10? No. So how can he get pitching depth when there was none available?

Excuse me, but isn't that his job? To identify and correct personel problems so that the team is competitive? What you have provided is excuses, and frankly, the excuse routine is getting old. I would have liked to see results. If he cannot do his job, its time to get someone who can.

Really? A "C"? I mean, Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Ortiz, Lester, Buchholz, Bard, Papelbon, Gonzo. And you're giving him a "C" because of some bad FA signings?

Wow.

You're right: a "C" is being far too generous:

Busts
SS Edgar Renteria (2004, 4 years, $40 million)
RHP Matt Clement (2004, 3 years, $25.8 million)
SS Julio Lugo (2006, 4 years, $36 million)
RHP Daisuke Matsuzaka (2006, 6 years, $52 million plus $51 million posting fee)
RHP Brad Penny (2008, 1 year, $5 million)
RHP John Smoltz (2009, 1 year, $5.5 million)
RHP John Lackey (2009, 5 years, $82.5 million)
OF Mike Cameron (2009, 2 years, $15.5 million)
RHP Bobby Jenks (2 years, $12 million)

Booms
DH David Ortiz (2003, 1 year, $1.2 million)
INF Bill Mueller (2002, 2 years, $4.5 million)
RHP Keith Foulke (2004, 3 years, $20.2 million)
LHP Hideki Okajima (2006, 2 years, $2.5 million)
RHP Takashi Saito (2009, 1 year, $1.5 million)
3B Adrian Beltre (2010, 1 year, $9 million)
RHP Alfredo Aceves (2011, 1 year, $650,000)

Trades
1B Kevin Millar for cash (2003, from Marlins)
RHP Scott Williamson for two prospects (2003, from Reds)
RHP Curt Schilling for four prospects (2003, from Diamondbacks)
INF Mark Bellhorn for one prospect (2003 from Dodgers)
1B Doug Mientkiewicz and SS Orlando Cabrera for SS Nomar Garciaparra and OF Matt Murton (2004 with Twins and Expos)
OF Dave Roberts for OF Henri Stanley (2004 from Dodgers)
OF Jason Bay for OF Manny Ramirez, RHP Craig Hansen and OF Brandon Moss (2008 with Pirates and Dodgers)
SS Alex Gonzales for a prospect (2009 from Reds)
C Jarrod Saltalamacchia for three prospects (2010 from Rangers)
1B Adrian Gonzalez for three prospects (2010 from Padres)

Extentions
DH David Ortiz (2004, 2 years, $12.5 million)
2B Dustin Pedroia (2008, 6 years, $40.5 million)
3B Kevin Youkilis (2009, 4 years, $41.13 million)
LHP Jon Lester (2009, 5 years, $30 million)

Drafts/IFA
CF Jacoby Ellsbury
2B Dustin Pedroia
3B Kevin Youkilis
SS Jose Iglesias
SP Jon Lester
SP Clay Buchholz
RP Daniel Bard
RP Jonathan Papelbon

Yeah. I think a "C" is pretty appropriate

[ORS]

Call me crazy, but I think it's a bit premature to put Jose Iglesias on any kind of list right now, positive or negative. It's great that he can field the SS position at the highest of levels already, but he hasn't proven he can hit well enough to contribute at the MLB level....yet.

[Coco's Disciples]

I hear red font proves your point.

Anyway, Theo is one of the best GMs in baseball and the Cubs will greatly benefit from him. I'm excited to see how Cherington does.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Originally Posted by ORS;705668;

Call me crazy, but I think it's a bit premature to put Jose Iglesias on any kind of list right now, positive or negative. It's great that he can field the SS position at the highest of levels already, but he hasn't proven he can hit well enough to contribute at the MLB level....yet.

Fair enough, you can replace him with Justin Masterson, deal?

[Dojji]

I'll be happy to call for the signing of a perfect GM who never makes mistakes. All you have to do is go find one.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Originally Posted by Coco's Disciples;705669;

I hear red font proves your point.

Anyway, Theo is one of the best GMs in baseball and the Cubs will greatly benefit from him. I'm excited to see how Cherington does.

I heard that same thing. Good. Glad my efforts didn't go for nothing.

[pumpsie green]

Originally Posted by Coco's Disciples;705669;

I hear red font proves your point.

Anyway, Theo is one of the best GMs in baseball and the Cubs will greatly benefit from him.

I guess time will tell about that. His performance here in Boston did not warrant that generous an evaluation. He was a "C" GM IMO...at best. Even had he just saddled us with Lackey and Crawford he would be a "C" GM. He did far worse than just those two.