Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread - Talksox

SoxFanForsyth · 08-20-2012, 12:06 PM

It's time.

I will say this, I am more excited about this offseason than I have been for any offseason in years. There have got to be some significant changes.

Problem is, recent quotes from Cherrington have made me very weary of the moves he's going to make, including the following:

Quote:

Cherington was asked before Sunday's 4-1 loss to the New York Yankees, a game which left Beckett with just one win in his past 13 starts, whether he regarded Lester, Beckett and Clay Buchholz as "foundational pieces" to next year's starting rotation.

"Sure," Cherington said. "It's no secret our starting pitching has not been as good as it used to be, if you look at the entirety of the season. Part of improving it is simply to help our guys get back closer to what they've been in the past, and those are key guys.

And also....

Quote:

Cherington said that there have not been any discussions to this point about whether Bard might go to spring training next year as a starter or reliever.

"We haven’t talked about that. Right now just focused on getting him going on right track. He knows exactly what he needs to do and he’s working on it every day, and there are days where he’s a click away, and maybe he is. He’s got enough talent," Cherington said. "The role is something we can talk about in the offseason."

I will say this. If the Red Sox go into the 2013 season with the exact same rotation as they went into the 2012 season, there will be torches and pitchforks at Fenway.

So, lets hear it. What are your moves. From manager down to bench players and relievers.

a700hitter · 08-20-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxFanForsyth

It's time.

I will say this, I am more excited about this offseason than I have been for any offseason in years. There have got to be some significant changes.

Problem is, recent quotes from Cherrington have made me very weary of the moves he's going to make, including the following:

And also....

I will say this. If the Red Sox go into the 2013 season with the exact same rotation as they went into the 2012 season, there will be torches and pitchforks at Fenway.

So, lets hear it. What are your moves. From manager down to bench players and relievers.

There will be no torches and pitchforks. There won't be many fans either.

SoxFanForsyth · 08-20-2012, 06:51 PM

Looks like the Red Sox are ready to move forward. The following items have happened today:

1. Carl Crawford's surgery has been scheduled for Thursday (8/23).

2. Pitching coach Bob McClure has been fired.

3. Jose Iglesias has been scratched from the PawSox lineup. He's hitting .348/.423/.420 in 18 games in August and continues to drop jaws with his glove.

Hopefully this is a sign that Aviles has been traded.

Elktonnick · 08-20-2012, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxFanForsyth

Looks like the Red Sox are ready to move forward. The following items have happened today:

1. Carl Crawford's surgery has been scheduled for Thursday (8/23).

2. Pitching coach Bob McClure has been fired.

3. Jose Iglesias has been scratched from the PawSox lineup. He's hitting .348/.423/.420 in 18 games in August and continues to drop jaws with his glove.

Hopefully this is a sign that Aviles has been traded.

Finally the worst pitching coach in recent club history is axed.

Orange Juiced · 08-20-2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxFanForsyth

Looks like the Red Sox are ready to move forward. The following items have happened today:

1. Carl Crawford's surgery has been scheduled for Thursday (8/23).

2. Pitching coach Bob McClure has been fired.

3. Jose Iglesias has been scratched from the PawSox lineup. He's hitting .348/.423/.420 in 18 games in August and continues to drop jaws with his glove.

Hopefully this is a sign that Aviles has been traded.

I'm happy with all of these moves.

DocHolliday · 08-20-2012, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoxFanForsyth

Looks like the Red Sox are ready to move forward. The following items have happened today:

1. Carl Crawford's surgery has been scheduled for Thursday (8/23).

2. Pitching coach Bob McClure has been fired.

3. Jose Iglesias has been scratched from the PawSox lineup. He's hitting .348/.423/.420 in 18 games in August and continues to drop jaws with his glove.

Hopefully this is a sign that Aviles has been traded.

I think I read somewhere that Iglesias was taken out due to a minor ankle injury and might be out a few days.

Regardless, Aviles needs to be traded soon before he gets injured as well. The amount of injuries, phantom or not, has been off the charts for this year's team.

SoxFanForsyth · 08-20-2012, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

I think I read somewhere that Iglesias was taken out due to a minor ankle injury and might be out a few days.

Regardless, Aviles needs to be traded soon before he gets injured as well. The amount of injuries, phantom or not, has been off the charts for this year's team.

I did see that he jammed his ankle sliding into home the other day, but I don't think they would put him in the lineup originally if he was hurt from yesterday.

SoxSport · 08-20-2012, 09:31 PM

I read Iggy sprained his ankle, and didn't play Monday because of that. They'll be hell to pay if he isn't in the September callup.

Aside from the Bard fiasco, I think the single stupidest thing Cherington did this year was not to bring up Iggy sooner. You wonder how long Ben will continue to get a free ride from the media.

The team would have been much better off this year had Lav and Iggy been on the team from the start like Valentine wanted. Valentine backed down because of his buddy Lucchino.

jacksonianmarch · 08-20-2012, 09:35 PM

Aviles has actually had a great defensive season with a UZR/150 of 10.6 and a WAR of 2.3. Iglesias will likely not have that much of an impact in yr 1. Lavarnway, you might have a point. I think a lot of the sox pitching weakness comes from a weak catcher. That being said, a rookie catcher isnt likely going to change that

jacksonianmarch · 08-20-2012, 09:48 PM

Quote:

•Mike DiGiovanna of the LA Times would not be surprised if the Angels try to engage the Red Sox in trade talks about a possible John Lackey for Vernon Wells deal this offseason (Twitter links). Wells, who has $42MM on his contract after 2012, could be a fit in Fenway Park, DiGiovanna writes. Lackey, who pitched in Anaheim from 2002-09, has $30.5MM remaining on his contract after 2012.

This from mlbtraderumors.com. I dont see why the sox would want this. Wells has played like shit for a few yrs now and Lackey is coming off surgery. Also, the sox need pitching and if Lackey returns to a semblance of his prior form, they would be better served keeping him. Obviously, if he sucks in his return, they could rekindle the deal since Wells would likely still suck anyway

jung · 08-20-2012, 10:02 PM

Will BC's biggest mistake relative to the assets he had available to him in Pawtucket be Iggy not being brought in earlier or will it be Lavs not being brought in earlier? The way Aviles and Salty were playing you could about make a case for either being an issue I think.

I don't wonder if the Sox FO simply could not have tolerated seeing out there on the field at the same time, Iggy and Lavs actually contributing at what might have been a high enough level to have really been noticeably better than the guys they replaced. As much as I have been on about Aviles this year, if I had to rank them I would say that Salty has been even more horrible at Catcher than Aviles has been at SS. The reason I think it so is because the Catcher handles the ball every pitch and Salty is not only bad at fielding the position, including the mechanics of receiving the ball but Salty also has that poor target problem and does not appear to call a game competently either. If Salty was just bad defensively but provided a decent target for the pitchers and called a decent game then Salty would not be nearly as costly to the Sox effort.

I think Ciriaco opened many peoples eyes regarding Aviles as Ciriaco is light years better at SS than Aviles and Ciriaco is about half way between Aviles and Iggy defensively at least from what I have seen.

jung · 08-20-2012, 10:04 PM

Aviled did not have great year as a defensive SS. He is and was a butcher at SS. Aviles costs the Sox buckets of DP's for one thing.

Thunder · 08-20-2012, 10:18 PM

It all starts with a whole new FO. New GM, new manager, as well as a new pitching coach. John Farrell is apparently in the running for manager, but GM and PC are out of the question. Cherington has to go. Go after a few FA's, but don't sign big long term contracts. Start with 4-5 years max, so you can extend it if need be.

Sox also need to evaluate their roster during Spring Training. If the middle infielders in the minors shine during Spring Training, call them up. Iglesias, Bogaerts, and Ciriaco would be nice permanent additions. Middlebrooks will be back and healthy, Lavarnway will be up with Salty, who knows about Papi with the whole contract thing, and Crawford might not be ready so the outfield looks like Ross, Ellsbury, Sweeney with Kalish on the bench, and Middlebrooks, Ciriaco, Pedroia, and Gonzo in the infield. If you ask me, it looks like a rebuilding time is ahead.

The biggest thing the Sox need to do is look at the starting pitching. Dice K's contract runs out next year, so they're stuck with him for one more year, Lackey will have to be judged in Spring Training, and meanwhile I feel confident about Lester since he has turned it around recently, Cook is inconsistent with the sinker, and Beckett needs to go. Get the young guys going. Doubront and Morales look strong enough, and maybe Miller will become a starter again. My ideal rotation is Buchholz, Lester, Doubront, Morales, Cook(?). The five spot would be determined in Spring Training. Lot of moves coming, I'm just anxious to see what happens, because this is a Red Sox forum. We're supposed to be fans for life and have an unconditional love for the Sox, like we do for our parents, spouses, kids, etc...
This is the future, but rebuilding might have to happen first, and there are easy ways to work through it. Build around franchise players like Ellsbury, Pedroia, Gonzo and Middlebrooks.

Elktonnick · 08-20-2012, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jung

Aviled did not have great year as a defensive SS. He is and was a butcher at SS. Aviles costs the Sox buckets of DP's for one thing.

The whole Aviles Bard Ciriaco Lavarnway issues makes me really wonder about Cherrington's ability to judge talent. BV and Cherries butted heads all year over talent. In virtually every case, Bard Ciriaco WMB etc, BV proved to be the better evaluator of talent. I believe Cherries's ego refused to allow him to accept the advice of someone more knowledgeable and experienced than he. I think that is the great untold story of this year that is Cherries undercutting his manager by not giving him the better talent he requested that was available in the organization.

jung · 08-20-2012, 10:27 PM

By the way, in any discussion of FO big 2012 mistakes it goes without saying that the biggest off season 2011-2012 mistake was not addressing the starting pitching and going into the season with so many question marks and in some cases outright obvious concerns.

At least in my case I am talking about things they might have done during the 2012 season relative to the farm system.