Theo beats Ben to the punch (Haren) - Page 2 - Talksox

mvp 78 · 11-03-2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bellhorn04

There have to be some facts we don't have though. Otherwise somebody would have taken Haren.

Like a bad back and diminished velocity?

I like Haren, but getting him for only 1 year and giving up something in the process seems like a waste to me.

Station 13 · 11-03-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvp 78

Like a bad back and diminished velocity?

I like Haren, but getting him for only 1 year and giving up something in the process seems like a waste to me.

They don't have a spare part better than Carlos terrible Marmol to offer? No teams does? Angels were stupid.

User Name? · 11-03-2012, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palodios

Are you missing the facts here? They declined the option, and there was a 3.5 million dollar buyout.

If they were "giving him away" as you say, then why is he a free agent? Surely someone would have taken him for a minor piece if that was the case. The only fact here is that we don't know why no one picked him up.

SoxSport · 11-03-2012, 12:16 PM

Haren isn't the guy they want. He's on decline, and he will want Beckett type money. They need a leader on the staff, and Haren isn't the one.

Lackey is probably good for something next year, so you figure him as the 5th starter. They need to keep DeLaRosa on a short leash, because he could be their best pitcher pretty soon. The leader they need--but maybe not right away.

jung · 11-03-2012, 02:10 PM

Well I think Haren could have been a fit here at a something less than Beckett money. But, I am the one that is always sayin' that the team a guy has been playing for knows more about his condition than anybody else does at least until somebody makes an offer that player accepts and a physical happens. So I gotta' take my own medicine here and assume that there is something going on with Haren that the Angels know about....we need those kinds of problems like we need a dose of poison.

mvp 78 · 11-03-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Station 13

They don't have a spare part better than Carlos terrible Marmol to offer? No teams does? Angels were stupid.

Clearly not a single team wanted Haren for what the Angels asked for aside from the Cubs. If people want to bag on Ben, might as well bag on EVERY GM in MLB too...

To call it an epic fail and to get so upset over it seems silly to me.

If the Sox were one piece away, it'd make sense. They aren't.

I still think they need a youth movement and to aim for a WS in 2015. 85 wins in 13, 90 wins in 14, 95 and a title in 15. That's what I'd shoot for.

Palodios · 11-03-2012, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvp 78

Clearly not a single team wanted Haren for what the Angels asked for aside from the Cubs. If people want to bag on Ben, might as well bag on EVERY GM in MLB too...

To call it an epic fail and to get so upset over it seems silly to me.

If the Sox were one piece away, it'd make sense. They aren't.

I still think they need a youth movement and to aim for a WS in 2015. 85 wins in 13, 90 wins in 14, 95 and a title in 15. That's what I'd shoot for.

How do you stay competitive while having a youth movement? Sign above average players to short term contracts, and make smart calculated moves on the elite players you want to sign over the next few years to supplement your young players.

Any starter with ace-potential who can be had on a one-year deal should be top priority. Other teams may not have 16 million to blow, but the Red Sox do.

rjortiz · 11-03-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palodios

How do you stay competitive while having a youth movement? Sign above average players to short term contracts, and make smart calculated moves on the elite players you want to sign over the next few years to supplement your young players.

Any starter with ace-potential who can be had on a one-year deal should be top priority. Other teams may not have 16 million to blow, but the Red Sox do.

Don't get carried away. Haren's not an ace.

jung · 11-03-2012, 08:07 PM

I think Haren is past it as far as being a top of the rotation guy (trying to avoid that term....ace). He could have been a nice addition if it were not for being spooked by how inactive the Angels were on him. Gotta' believe there is something to that.

However I can see Pal's point about the $16M were it not for the fact that it does appear that the Sox are setting limits on what they spend maybe as a means of enforcing a spending regimen and making it painful for the FO to overspend for a player or players. In that sense I would not want them to plunk down $16M on Haren because if they start out that way I have got to believe they will run into a budget limitation and not be willing to go past it regardless of what they might be able to accomplish if they do. Even with all the do-ra-me they got from the trade, I have got to think they have set a limit on what they are going to be willing to spend in one year again to enforce some discipline. Something we know has been lacking.

BSN07 · 11-04-2012, 03:46 PM

I know I haven't been around in awhile but is this what Talksox has turned to? A bunch of premature threads so they can be the first in line to lob the first volley at the FO for not picking up a SP that had some serious red flags after the Cubs pulled Marmol back even though he was willing to go?

My GF who is a casual fan at best said an I quote "why would the cubs do that? Doesn't Marmol suck?". Something smells fishy and I ain't just talking about Lackey's fish tacos.

mvp 78 · 11-04-2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSN07

I know I haven't been around in awhile but is this what Talksox has turned to? A bunch of premature threads so they can be the first in line to lob the first volley at the FO.

Pretty much.

redsoxfan3 · 11-04-2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palodios

How do you stay competitive while having a youth movement? Sign above average players to short term contracts, and make smart calculated moves on the elite players you want to sign over the next few years to supplement your young players.

Any starter with ace-potential who can be had on a one-year deal should be top priority. Other teams may not have 16 million to blow, but the Red Sox do.

I do not really consider Haren as "ace-potential," but I do consider him as an upgrade to our rotation. With Buchholz, Lackey, and Lester probably a lock in the rotation next year, that leaves question marks for Doubront and Morales. If we can trade Doubront, I am all for it for the right deal (only if we sign or trade for two quality starters).

The thing we have to think about is what will make our rotation better. I do know that a legitimate ace would be nice, but if we can sign a couple of guys that have potential to put up #2 or #3 numbers, then I think we need to jump on that opportunity. Even if we do not get an ace, anyone that we can sign to improve our rotation is a good move. I would be fine with signing any two of Lohse, Greinke, Haren, McCarthy, Jackson, or Kuroda to a one year deal to improve our rotation. I know that some think Greinke would not be a fit and that McCarthy is a question mark, but we have to do what we can to improve our rotation. A true ace might be out of the equation.

seabeachfred · 11-04-2012, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palodios

Firstly, you weren't going to get Ortiz on a one year deal. Period. I have absolutely no problem with the money or years-- what bothers me is that it took so long for the Red Sox to get it done... when essentially they gave Ortiz exactly what he wanted. He was asking for 2/25-30, and that's exactly what he got.

Haren could have been had simply by taking his contract, and the front office was too busy "negotiating" with Ortiz.

Well it seems obvious that Cherington is not a "speedy gonzales" when it comes to moving in for signing players, but you're right. We most likely wouldn't have gotten Papi for one year because I read that at least two teams were interested in him and most likely would have been willing to ante up---the Rangers and another team I can't recall.

As for Haren, as I've mentioned before my wife is a big Angels fan and I indulge here with a mini-ticket plan for Angels homes games since she lets me travel all over the place to see the Red Sox. I have to say I was not impressed with the three times I saw Haren pitch this season. Was he having an off year? Was he starting to show wear and tear? Was he losing his top notch stuff of previous seasons? I don't know for sure but after seeing how Lester and Buchholz pitched this season my inclinations would have been to take a chance on this guy. I wonder what Ben is thinking along those lines right now.

VA Sox Fan · 11-04-2012, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mvp 78

Pretty much.

Yep,big time.

mvp 78 · 11-04-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seabeachfred

I have to say I was not impressed with the three times I saw Haren pitch this season. Was he having an off year? Was he starting to show wear and tear? Was he losing his top notch stuff of previous seasons? I don't know for sure but after seeing how Lester and Buchholz pitched this season my inclinations would have been to take a chance on this guy. I wonder what Ben is thinking along those lines right now.

I'm not sure why people would be excited for a rotation of 4 reclamation projects (Lester, Buch, Lackey, Haren) and a miscellaneous 5th starter.

I think people need to come to grips with the fact that the Sox won't be a WS contender in 2013 but that it's not the end of the world. The Sox need to build a young core in hopes of renewing a Sox dynasty in 2015. If it was 2003, the Sox should be trying to load up on anything and everything. However, right now they need to take a more patient approach.