Example...I have never once made the contention of game-calling. Not once. Please go back and re-read my salient points. The very premise of your rebuttal is incorrect.
However, I made the contention of of framing pitches. I also think CERA is a very limited statistic, and only has relevance in comparing catchers on the same team. However, it is a very telling statistic for two catchers on the same team. Comparing CERA between say, Saltalamachia and McCann will yield results that are of no significance. Different leagues, teams, opponents, etc. This is why the stat has not not become mainstream. However, using it to compare two catchers on the same team is a different story. That is the strength in this statistic.
I've already tackled the OPS question. There is no question that Posada brings more offensively, to the tune of about half a run a game. Outside of Mauer, Posada is probably the best hitting catcher in baseball. I have no problem with him AT the plate. However, what he costs behind the plate is nearly 1 run a game, resulting in a net loss of half a run a game. I've shown this.
You say that the Yankees live on the corners. This is not true this season. They Yankees have 3 bonafide strikeout pitchers on their team in CC, Burnett, and Joba, and two in the pen in Rivera and Bruney. That argument doesn't hold water, at least this season.
I don't trust Bill James anywhere near as much as you do. He's a statistician. One of the best in the game. However, statistical analysis of this game has always been nothing more but trial and error. I don't put the blind faith in statistics that a lot here do. Those people are generally too lazy or lack the knowledge of what they see. Using both in conjunction is the best way to go about it. However, this is another topic for another thread.
This is the same guy who predicted a 3.35 ERA for Hughes this year. Japanese managers use CERA to determine their catchers as one of their parameters. Eventually, so will we. In this case, they are ahead of us, but we will catch up. This will happen when someone comes up with a better way to evaluate the effect catchers have on the game. Until then, idiots like Jacko will continue thinking offense is more important at baseballs most important defensive position. The problem with this is that we simply haven't developed a formula yet that can validate it. Until then, we are struck with the limitations of what we CAN quantify easily. Keep in mind, that only recently have we been able to quantify certain things, like line drive percentage, etc. It's only a matter of time until someone much smarter than any of us in mathematics figures something out. Keep in mind, it was only a few short years ago that Moneyball came out, and the premise of that book was OBP, and to hell with defense. Our knowledge of the game changes over time.
I'm still waiting on Jacko's results of 2008 and 2009, by the way. I guess I'll be waiting a long time.
The reality of the matter is that Posada adds about 1-2 runs a week over Molina offensively. The statistics show that. He costs them about the same PER GAME.
No contest Example. None whatsoever.
If we play Posada every game, with his inability to get pitches on the black, especially to teams like the Red Sox, who have patient hitters, we've lost the game before it even begins more than 50% of the time.
The fact remains as follows: In 2008, Molina posted a CERA of 0.91 lower than Posada. Show me how Posada's offense makes up for that. In 2009, it's 4.12 as the difference, and I will acknowledge that the sample size is small enough to be taken into consideration, and I'm willing to work with just the 0.91 of 2008 [of course, our village idiot will go back to claiming 2007, and the two months that Molina was there as the backup...and not realizing that in those two months, Molina's CERA was lower than Posada's, lol].
I'm still waiting Jacko. Show me how Posada's bat makes up the difference.
Originally Posted by CrespoBlows;384744;
