A must read on AGon.

[RWTP24]

I have absolutely no idea what I would do. Emotions are a very tricky thing, and it would be a torturous decision. However, Jacko's explanation is logical. That's all I'm saying.

I can agree with it being lagical in someways, but I think what upset everyone, was the "I don't feel sorry for AGon" part.

[Dipre]

Wow.

That's rough.

You're a parent.

What's your take on the whole ordeal?

[yankees228]

When did a parent's love respect logic?

Sometimes being human beats logical thinking. And you can't fault someone else when that happens if you don't know what's going on through their minds.

I don't fault Gonzalez at all. I've already said that. I don't disagree with you guys, but I also respect Jacko's opinion (most of it). He's obviously not in their shoes, but I think it's a completely legitimate perspective.

[jacksonianmarch]

So you have to have knowledge to have a heart? You have to be of Jacko-esque wisdom to know that pulling the plug on a child is probably the toughest decision you'd ever have to make? It's hard enough having to put down the dog you loved for 12 years, but to pull the plug on your own son or daughter would be unfathomable. Do you have children? Have you had a child in a coma? It's a legitimate question, if you haven't, then it's probably something that would change your perspective on this overall.

Like I said, I have a unique perspective seeing as I see these types of kids all the time coming in incredibly ill with zero hope for recovery. Its called futility. And it would make things a whole lot easier if the physician had the right to "pull the plug" so the family wouldnt have to (that would remove all the guilt, which I find to be the biggest deterrant in this scenario). Technically, physicians do have the right to do so, but it is usually in congruence with an oppositional family and dealing through the court system is not worth the time. Regardless, its an awful situation either way you slice it. But before you skewer me on the site, think for one minute how you would feel if you were in that situation.

They cut a hole in your neck and stuffed a breathing tube down it. They cut a hole in your belly and stuffed a feeding tube down it. They shoved a catheter up your urethra to drain your urine. They stuffed a tube up your butt to drain your stool. There is a central venous catheter in your neck or arm that is of rather large caliber. You have been on your back so long that bedsores develop, sometimes down to the bone. Every 6 weeks, you get a urinary tract infection that lands you back in the hospital. There are monitors going off every 5 minutes in your room. Eventually, you are off all sedation and pain medicine. And eventually, you succumb to pneumonia/sepsis/pulmonary embolus, you name it. I'd rather be dead if you asked me. So before you go skewering me, think about it from that standpoint. Because if you think about it that way, then you see why I think its cruel.

[Emmz]

Like I said, I have a unique perspective seeing as I see these types of kids all the time coming in incredibly ill with zero hope for recovery. Its called futility. And it would make things a whole lot easier if the physician had the right to "pull the plug" so the family wouldnt have to (that would remove all the guilt, which I find to be the biggest deterrant in this scenario). Technically, physicians do have the right to do so, but it is usually in congruence with an oppositional family and dealing through the court system is not worth the time. Regardless, its an awful situation either way you slice it. But before you skewer me on the site, think for one minute how you would feel if you were in that situation.

They cut a hole in your neck and stuffed a breathing tube down it. They cut a hole in your belly and stuffed a feeding tube down it. They shoved a catheter up your urethra to drain your urine. They stuffed a tube up your butt to drain your stool. There is a central venous catheter in your neck or arm that is of rather large caliber. You have been on your back so long that bedsores develop, sometimes down to the bone. Every 6 weeks, you get a urinary tract infection that lands you back in the hospital. There are monitors going off every 5 minutes in your room. Eventually, you are off all sedation and pain medicine. And eventually, you succumb to pneumonia/sepsis/pulmonary embolus, you name it. I'd rather be dead if you asked me. So before you go skewering me, think about it from that standpoint. Because if you think about it that way, then you see why I think its cruel.

And like I said; Being an emotional, loving human being trumps being logical

[Javier Lopez]

wow, big deal, he's rich... he can just buy another son if he wants.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

wow, big deal, he's rich... he can just buy another son if he wants.

:lol:

[Emmz]

Tell me why is this troll still here? Seriously, pick your spots.

[Dipre]

Like I said, I have a unique perspective seeing as I see these types of kids all the time coming in incredibly ill with zero hope for recovery. Its called futility. And it would make things a whole lot easier if the physician had the right to "pull the plug" so the family wouldnt have to (that would remove all the guilt, which I find to be the biggest deterrant in this scenario). Technically, physicians do have the right to do so, but it is usually in congruence with an oppositional family and dealing through the court system is not worth the time. Regardless, its an awful situation either way you slice it. But before you skewer me on the site, think for one minute how you would feel if you were in that situation.

They cut a hole in your neck and stuffed a breathing tube down it. They cut a hole in your belly and stuffed a feeding tube down it. They shoved a catheter up your urethra to drain your urine. They stuffed a tube up your butt to drain your stool. There is a central venous catheter in your neck or arm that is of rather large caliber. You have been on your back so long that bedsores develop, sometimes down to the bone. Every 6 weeks, you get a urinary tract infection that lands you back in the hospital. There are monitors going off every 5 minutes in your room. Eventually, you are off all sedation and pain medicine. And eventually, you succumb to pneumonia/sepsis/pulmonary embolus, you name it. I'd rather be dead if you asked me. So before you go skewering me, think about it from that standpoint. Because if you think about it that way, then you see why I think its cruel.

Sure, you can think it's cruel.

But it still doesn't excuse you.

Do you think you have the balls to go ahead and say: "Doctor, i think it's time to pull the plug on my child."

A-Gon doesn't, and he's in a world of pain for it, saying we shouldn't feel sorry for him just makes you a heartless bastard.

[jacksonianmarch]

When did a parent's love respect logic?

Sometimes being human beats logical thinking. And you can't fault someone else when that happens if you don't know what's going on through their minds.

I am saying that a parents love should be based upon the child alone. How can one say that leaving the child in his current state is love? Especially when I painted a pretty accurate picture of this child's day to day

[Dipre]

I don't fault Gonzalez at all. I've already said that. I don't disagree with you guys, but I also respect Jacko's opinion (most of it). He's obviously not in their shoes, but I think it's a completely legitimate perspective.

It doesn't matter if it's a legitimate perspective.

I'll change my question:

Does he have the right to judge them and say they don't deserve our sympathy?

Because i sure as fuck remember being told that judgement is something reserved only for the man upstairs.

[Jasonbay44]

Wow, thats terrible, Its amazing he's able to play with his son in a comma and having all these problems.

wow, big deal, he's rich... he can just buy another son if he wants.

Seriously? Just because your rich doesn't mean you don't have a heart or don't care about your family. I bet Gonzalez would pay all the money he had to have his son be able to live a normal life.

[Dipre]

I am saying that a parents love should be based upon the child alone. How can one say that leaving the child in his current state is love? Especially when I painted a pretty accurate picture of this child's day to day

You don't even have kids.

You don't know what they're going through.

You're going off what you've SEEN but what's important is what's being FELT.

Part of being a human being is knowing the pain of others, and extending your thoughts and prayers to help them, not be a dick and look down on them.

[Javier Lopez]

Wow, thats terrible, Its amazing he's able to play with his son in a comma and having all these problems.




Seriously? Just because your rich doesn't mean you don't have a heart or don't care about your family. I bet Gonzalez would pay all the money he had to have his son be able to live a normal life.

Who gives a fuck, he has money, the dumb ass can use it, he could probably buy like 40 afircan kids with how much money he has

Tell me why is this troll still here? Seriously, pick your spots.

why are you here?

[jacksonianmarch]

Sure, you can think it's cruel.

But it still doesn't excuse you.

Do you think you have the balls to go ahead and say: "Doctor, i think it's time to pull the plug on my child."

A-Gon doesn't, and he's in a world of pain for it, saying we shouldn't feel sorry for him just makes you a heartless bastard.

Maybe I am heartless in that sense. So be it. I feel bad for the family when the situation happens. Once things stabilize and start to point in a certain direction, it shifts from a pity for the family to a pity for the patient. And I feel really, really bad for his kid. And it isnt like this hasnt been brought up before. I guarantee you, that if the article's portrayal of his son's state is accurate, that the topic has been brought up in family meetings on a regular basis. A lot of places have these family meetings mandated between 7-14 days of admission if a patient is not getting out of the ICU, which this kid never did. It isnt like AGon is supposed to come up to them one day and say, pull the plug. I guarantee you it has been brought up before.