Marlins fire Ozzie Guillen

[a700hitter]

Personally I don't consider John Henry an idiot. And I will give him a pass on 2012 as long as he shows commitment and smarts going forward.

2012 did not happen in a vacuum. As I said earlier, a lot of fail culminated in the 2012 season. The three years plus leading up to 2012 were replete with one bad decision after another. The culmination of that was 2012. If you give them a pass on 2012, you are giving them a pass on everything leading up to it. I hope the FO is not as forgiving as you are.

[Bellhorn04]

2012 did not happen in a vacuum. As I said earlier, a lot of fail culminated in the 2012 season. The three years plus leading up to 2012 were replete with one bad decision after another. The culmination of that was 2012. If you give them a pass on 2012, you are giving them a pass on everything leading up to it. I hope the FO is not as forgiving as you are.

No, 2012 didn't happen in a vacuum. But the 2011 team won 90 games, and the fewest wins in the 11 year ownership, outside of 211, has been 86.

What I meant was that I would give them a pass on 2012 *if* they do much better going forward.

[a700hitter]

No, 2012 didn't happen in a vacuum. But the 2011 team won 90 games, and the fewest wins in the 11 year ownership, outside of 211, has been 86.

What I meant was that I would give them a pass on 2012 *if* they do much better going forward.

It would be hard to do worse. Merely doing better will not be a complete vindication.

[a700hitter]

No, 2012 didn't happen in a vacuum. But the 2011 team won 90 games, and the fewest wins in the 11 year ownership, outside of 211, has been 86.

What I meant was that I would give them a pass on 2012 *if* they do much better going forward.

I don't know if people understand the magnitude of 2012's failure. It was not merely a bad year. In the 80 seasons since Tom Yawkey first purchased the Red Sox, they had a lower winning percentage in only 3 other seasons-- one being 1933 the first year Yawkey owned the team. 2012 was epic fail, not just a bad season.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't know if people understand the magnitude of 2012's failure. It was not merely a bad year. In the 80 seasons since Tom Yawkey first purchased the Red Sox, they had a lower winning percentage in only 3 other seasons-- one being 1933 the first year Yawkey owned the team. 2012 was epic fail, not just a bad season.

I agree that it was epic and I understand the magnitude. But to me it's still just one season.

[ibot2much]

Apparently, this was not the year of the outspoken manager

[Bellhorn04]

Apparently, this was not the year of the outspoken manager

Guillen and Valentine are both nutjobs. They should get a reality show together...'Ozzie and Bobby Go Job-Hunting'

[a700hitter]

I agree that it was epic and I understand the magnitude. But to me it's still just one season.

The magnitude of the fail correctly suggests IMO that the Red Sox is a very sick organization with lots of problems. It is not as simple as the roster or the farm or the coaches or the GM or Lucchino. It is all of these obvious things plus more.

[Bellhorn04]

The magnitude of the fail correctly suggests IMO that the Red Sox is a very sick organization with lots of problems. It is not as simple as the roster or the farm or the coaches or the GM or Lucchino. It is all of these obvious things plus more.

The farm is in better shape now. I just heard that we had 5 of the top 50 rated prospects in the latest ranking. Plus we have much higher draft picks than usual this year.

I will readily admit that skepticism is warranted with regard to the ability of Lucchino and Cherington to rebuild our roster. They have to prove it.

[Behindenemylines]

Guys the $pankees just got swept by the Tigers and are playing golf today. The Sox have a manager before Christmas. Spring training is one day closer. So you agree to disagree. Bottle the hate and save it for the $pankees.