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Thread: Vazquez

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Trade bait?
    Sure. If only for a top end pitcher. Otherwise he should stay.

    He still needs work behind the plate but it is clear that he will hit well in the Majors, I think.

  2. #17
    Swihart is the ceiling guy, Vasquez is probability. Certainly Swihart has shown at lower levels he can be very good defensively too. Clearly there is a gap in pitch framing which is sad but true (sad that it is a thing). It is a good problem for the Sox to have. Swihart earlier on looked overwhelmed, but the tools - both offensively and behind the plate - are obvious. This isn't shoehorning a bat.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    Sure. If only for a top end pitcher. Otherwise he should stay.

    He still needs work behind the plate but it is clear that he will hit well in the Majors, I think.
    It would have to be for a top tier guy as he is arguably our most valuable trade chip right now. We could be selling high on him or he could become a star. That is for DD to figure out.

    The thing with high value prospects is that once you give them the job of they hit .250- .260 with 12 HRs and average defense, they lose value as trading chips.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  4. #19
    Interestingly at this point, both guys have more or less identical ML samples:

    Vasquez 201 PAs .240/.308/.309
    Swihart 210 PAs .259/.301/.345

    Both rated well defensively. Really a question of upside and whatnot. I'd choose Swihart myself, but I would be against seeing what he can fetch because Vasquez is such a likely starter.

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post

    Both rated well defensively. Really a question of upside and whatnot.
    They are not even close defensively. That type of fielding talent cannot be learned. Hitting can be learned. Look at Yadier Molina.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    They are not even close defensively. That type of fielding talent cannot be learned. Hitting can be learned. Look at Yadier Molina.
    I think you're debating elite vs very good ... instead of elite vs Hanley Ramirez in LF ... neither will be a minus back there. When discussing the two catchers on this board, because Swihart is a good athlete, good enough to play an infield position competently - the discourse seems to lapse into him basically catching because of his bat, like he was Mickey Tettleton. He looks like he will be a very good defensive catcher. There is a real possibility Swihart's total package eclipses Vasquez, and the defense would be part of that package.

    The fascinating thing to me is Vasquez' pitch framing vs Swihart's bat - and that is probably where the decision point is ... that and whether you think Vasquez can hit better than what he has shown so far (which is not quite enough, but close)
    Last edited by sk7326; 08-21-2015 at 09:40 AM.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    I think you're debating elite vs very good ... instead of elite vs Hanley Ramirez in LF ... neither will be a minus back there. When discussing the two catchers on this board, because Swihart is a good athlete, good enough to play an infield position competently - the discourse seems to lapse into him basically catching because of his bat, like he was Mickey Tettleton. He looks like he will be a very good defensive catcher. There is a real possibility Swihart's total package eclipses Vasquez, and the defense would be part of that package.

    The fascinating thing to me is Vasquez' pitch framing vs Swihart's bat - and that is probably where the decision point is ... that and whether you think Vasquez can hit better than what he has shown so far (which is not quite enough, but close)
    I think the organization would keep the elite talent over the very good. Hitting wise, Swihart projects to be better than Vasquez, but not elite. I think you stay with the elite catcher over the better hitter as the elite catcher is more valuable.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    I think the organization would keep the elite talent over the very good. Hitting wise, Swihart projects to be better than Vasquez, but not elite. I think you stay with the elite catcher over the better hitter as the elite catcher is more valuable.
    Perhaps elite for the position, and has been a good defender so far - and the age gap is signficant here also. Red Sox can't lose either way really ... there is no question Vasquez has some Molina-esque projection. Just a matter of which one.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    Perhaps elite for the position, and has been a good defender so far - and the age gap is signficant here also. Red Sox can't lose either way really ... there is no question Vasquez has some Molina-esque projection. Just a matter of which one.
    Never trade elite. You lose when you do that. It comes along far less frequently than good or very good.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by sk7326 View Post
    Interestingly at this point, both guys have more or less identical ML samples:

    Vasquez 201 PAs .240/.308/.309
    Swihart 210 PAs .259/.301/.345

    Both rated well defensively. Really a question of upside and whatnot. I'd choose Swihart myself, but I would be against seeing what he can fetch because Vasquez is such a likely starter.
    Tough decision, and nice problem to have. From what I've read, Swihart rates as the better catcher overall, but I have a soft spot in my heart for Vazquez. For me, a catcher's top priority is what he does behind the plate, and most think that Vazquez is elite in that regard. I read this morning that he has been with the team this entire season while rehabbing, sitting in on the meetings, etc. You have to love that in a player. The idea of having a Vazquez/Hanigan tandem next season is very exciting to me.

    Not that I'm trying to knock Swihart. I would hate to see him traded. I'd like to see him tried out at 1B.

  11. #26
    Blake is now hitting .274/.315/.368.

    He's getting better by the day.
    Fire Farrell - fucking check mark!
    Trade Pedroia
    Sign JD Martinez to play 1B/DH
    Sign Alex Cora for MGR - check plus!

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Blake is now hitting .274/.315/.368.

    He's getting better by the day.
    He's been hitting well since coming off the DL. Still needs some more work behind the plate, but under the circumstances, he has does an admirable job this season. Like I said, it's a tough call.

  13. #28
    Blake will be a good major league hitter, maybe even very good. I don't think that he projects as elite, offensively or defensively. Vasquez, if healthy, is already an elite defender. I am always in the camp of keeping the elite talent. If Swihart could play third base, that would be great. We could dump Fatass and dumbass.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Blake will be a good major league hitter, maybe even very good. I don't think that he projects as elite, offensively or defensively. Vasquez, if healthy, is already an elite defender. I am always in the camp of keeping the elite talent. If Swihart could play third base, that would be great. We could dump Fatass and dumbass.
    I endorse this post.

  15. #30
    I endorse whatever posts agree with my opinion too!
    Fire Farrell - fucking check mark!
    Trade Pedroia
    Sign JD Martinez to play 1B/DH
    Sign Alex Cora for MGR - check plus!

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