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Thread: The rebuild thread.

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I still think everyone is overreacting. We have a bad 1st half as reigning champs and all of a sudden you guys want to get rid of everybody and start over. Want to sit in last for the next five years like the Astros? Offensively, we have lost a lot from last year. Some people like Ells we can't replace. Some people like Victorino are just on the DL. Other factors, such as Nava, Gomes, Napoli, and Ortiz are having subpar years offensively. Injuries have killed this team this year. If WMB was healthy, there is no way Xander would be playing everyday right now, and maybe he would even be optioned back to Pawtucket to get that swing back. I see this thread more as a purpose to blow off steam because we miss what we had last year. Everybody slow down and look at the facts here.
    The facts are this.

    1. This team is 12 games under .500 after 90 games.
    2. This team still has not gotten a deal done with Lester. If they can't work something out by the ASB, they need to strongly consider moving him because you can get a blue chip prospect from a desperate team (see: Taijuan Walker from SEA) and that's a hell of a lot better than the 35th pick int he draft.
    3. This team isn't going to be sitting in last place for 5 years. I can absolutely see them going out and trading Swihart, Owens, and Ranaudo for a guy like Tulo either this offseason or this deadline. It's going to be a hybrid of young talent and acquiring some very strong veteran talent. I can also see them getting Lee, trading Lester for a blue chip, and thus giving them another year of a top of the rotation guy to let the other arms develop, but not having to commit 5-6 years to Lester. Lee would only require a 1-2 year commitment.
    4. Trading a lot of these veterans and getting the young kids up here right now to let them iron out some of those development wrinkles is a very good idea. The more lumps you swallow now, the less you have to swallow later. Not to mention, you will have a better idea of holes you need to fill.

    Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. This year is a throw away, development year. Now don't half ass the development part.

  2. #17
    The facts are that the sox overachieved massively last yr. And then you downgraded in CF and C. You toyed with Drew and by the time you got him back, his timing was off. The glass slippers fell off a few players and the kids who you needed to step up, fell back. This was a bad team defending their title. That's a fact
    Hal sucks

  3. #18
    And injuries killed your team? Cry me a fucking river. Our 1,3,4, and 5 starters entering the yr are on the DL. Our RFer can't play the field anymore because of his arm which led to Sori taking a bench role and getting DFAd. Your injury history this yr is minor
    Hal sucks

  4. #19
    Leyenda Thunder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    The facts are that the sox overachieved massively last yr. And then you downgraded in CF and C. You toyed with Drew and by the time you got him back, his timing was off. The glass slippers fell off a few players and the kids who you needed to step up, fell back. This was a bad team defending their title. That's a fact
    This I agree with. I could have stated the point in a better way. I hate to say it, but last season was almost a fluke, boosted by the bombings. Pro sports usually find a way to be rigged like that, where a team facing adversity goes far. Before you bring up the 2001 Yankees, and how they should have won the WS, that team was part of a dynasty. Last year's Sox team was not. 2010 was marred by injuries, 2011 was stupid, 2012 was just a complete failure. They just flat out over performed last year.
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    I can't disagree with you

  5. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    The facts are that the sox overachieved massively last yr. And then you downgraded in CF and C. You toyed with Drew and by the time you got him back, his timing was off. The glass slippers fell off a few players and the kids who you needed to step up, fell back. This was a bad team defending their title. That's a fact
    I agree with a lot of this. They overachieved, sure, but they also lost a 6 win player in Victorino to the DL, the FO overreacted by signing Drew and then expecting him to be game ready after 10 days in AAA, and they didn't try to supplement the massive amount of loss in offense from Ellsbury by acquiring some kind of power bat.

    It's actually a little difficult to pinpoint exactly what's going on. Nava had a slow start but came on strong. Gomes is still hitting lefties well enough. Bogaerts is struggling now but he was playing well and the Sox were still losing. Pedroia's numbers are right on track. Ortiz has power, but his average is down a lot.

    The Sox have an above average team OBP (.320, 11th in MLB), but are 27th in SLG (which, oddly enough, is more strongly correlated with runs scored than OBP), which is a big surprise and couldn't possibly be anticipated, particularly given they led the league with a .446 team SLG last year and they lost Ellsbury (.426 SLG) and Salty (.466), who together averaged out to right around the Sox .446 SLG, so you would think they could at least provide .420-.430 SLG even with some regression.

    I don't know, this whole season went to crap. Last year they overachieved in a few areas, but I wouldn't call the WS a fluke. A lot of things have to go right for any team to win the WS. And rarely does the best team preseason win the WS.
    Last edited by SoxFanForsyth; 07-09-2014 at 08:24 PM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    The facts are that the sox overachieved massively last yr. And then you downgraded in CF and C. You toyed with Drew and by the time you got him back, his timing was off. The glass slippers fell off a few players and the kids who you needed to step up, fell back. This was a bad team defending their title. That's a fact
    The only fact is that we're WS Champs. Look up the word "fact". As a Yankee fan of course youd like to say that last year was a fluke and this year is more like reality. I think alot of this is in our heads and we're severely underachieving. How can we beat the Yanks two out of three in Yankee Stadium and then get swept by the Cubs at home?

    However I do agree about the timing of getting Drew was off.

  7. #22
    Jon Lester, Andrew Miller, and Koji Uehara for Taijuan Walker, who hangs up first?

    Henry Owens, Blake Swihart, and Allen Webster for Tulo, who hangs up first?

  8. #23
    Trade Uehara?? And then what? Do the names Bailey, Hanrahan, etc. ring a bell? He's probably dollar for dollar the most valuable asset the Sox have. For the kind of money he makes, the Sox will pick up what? Another Jonny Gomes?

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by jad View Post
    Trade Uehara?? And then what? Do the names Bailey, Hanrahan, etc. ring a bell? He's probably dollar for dollar the most valuable asset the Sox have. For the kind of money he makes, the Sox will pick up what? Another Jonny Gomes?
    huh?? Uehara is a free agent after this season. If you can use him to turn Lester into Walker, you do.

  10. #25
    Your pal, Pal Palodios's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFanForsyth View Post
    huh?? Uehara is a free agent after this season. If you can use him to turn Lester into Walker, you do.
    Lester and Koji are worth more than Walker. I wouldn't trade the pair for any less than two top 50 prospects, and I can cite a dozen examples with comparable prospect returns for top tier pitching.

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Palodios View Post
    Lester and Koji are worth more than Walker. I wouldn't trade the pair for any less than two top 50 prospects, and I can cite a dozen examples with comparable prospect returns for top tier pitching.
    You know Taijuan Walker was the #11 prospect (BA), #6 prospect (MLB) and #8 prospect (Baseball Prospectus) coming into this season, correct?

    But, I did forget about his previous injury history.

    I highly doubt the Cardinals would trade Tavares, but you have to ask. Also inquire on Joc Pederson & Corey Seager from the Dodgers.

  12. #27
    Actually, if you can get Joc Pederson (.319/.437/.568 in AAA, although it's the PCL where numbers are inflated), you have your OF for the future with Betts - Bradley - Pederson going LF - CF - RF.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Palodios View Post
    Lester and Koji are worth more than Walker. I wouldn't trade the pair for any less than two top 50 prospects, and I can cite a dozen examples with comparable prospect returns for top tier pitching.
    Also, the problem with this is that there probably aren't buyers who have two top-50's. You'd be better served to get a top 10 guy and maybe a lower level (high A) guy who has a lot of potential but has a few years to get there, and maybe ranks in the 80-90 range.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    The facts are that the sox overachieved massively last yr. And then you downgraded in CF and C. You toyed with Drew and by the time you got him back, his timing was off. The glass slippers fell off a few players and the kids who you needed to step up, fell back. This was a bad team defending their title. That's a fact
    I've seen this before and maybe I don't understand, but who overachieved?

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by win red sox View Post
    I've seen this before and maybe I don't understand, but who overachieved?
    Nava had his best career yr
    Victorino revived his career and the best WAR of his career
    Napoli had the second highest WAR of his career
    Ortiz had a near identical WAR to 2011, which was the best since 2007.
    Uehara had the best yr ever for a reliever
    Salty had his best career season
    Pedroia had a 5.4WAR season with a torn UCL
    Buchholz had a career half season
    Mike Carp had his best yr
    Stephen Drew had his best season since his ankle shattered in 2011, and his second best season in his career
    John Lackey returned from oblivion to have a great season
    Hal sucks

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