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View Poll Results: Grade Ben's performance

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  • A

    4 12.50%
  • B

    7 21.88%
  • C

    4 12.50%
  • D

    5 15.63%
  • F

    4 12.50%
  • Too soon to tell

    8 25.00%
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Thread: How did Ben do today?

  1. #1
    "Just one more thing..." Northern Star's Avatar
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    How did Ben do today?

    What rating do you give him?
    Priorities:
    1. Yankees lose
    2. Red Sox win

    Quote Originally Posted by joeycaps View Post
    So shut up because you have no idea on what you say on anything as evidence of some of your ridiculous posts.

  2. #2
    BC still has until spring training 2015 to finish what he started today. If he can't rebuild the pitching staff then what he did today is worth nothing. Buchholtz is the only remaining starter from the beginning of the year. An Buchholtz is a shell of himself.

  3. #3
    Your pal, Pal Palodios's Avatar
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    I gave an F.

    I understand the Lester trade. I liked the Miller trade. I don't like giving the Yankees a player for money, and I consider the Lackey trade the worst trade in my time as a Red Sox fan -- and that includes the Lowrie trade.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Palodios View Post
    I gave an F.

    I understand the Lester trade. I liked the Miller trade. I don't like giving the Yankees a player for money, and I consider the Lackey trade the worst trade in my time as a Red Sox fan -- and that includes the Lowrie trade.
    I gave an "F" too. I don't like any of the trades we made today save for Drew who needed to go to open up SS for Bogaerts' return there, not that I now feel that Xander is going to do a great job. His pathetic weak hitting with RISP is an alarming red flag for us but that could be overcome with determination and experience, but we now do not have an ace on the pitching staff and three of our starters are total duds in my opinion. Workman is a reliever, not a starter, Webster can't put it all together and Buccholz is a total mess and totally ill-equipped to shoulder the role as ace of the staff. Unless we deal for two top notch pitchers over the winter or maybe in late August, we won't sniff a division title for at least five years.

    As for Lackey, he demanded a trade. I mentioned this last night. A friend of mine on another board has an in with someone in the Red Sox organization who told her exactly that. When I mentioned that last night two colleagues made a joke of it . I reminded them of it today and will keep doing so for awhile. I also know that Lackey will not pitch for $500K. If the Cardinals insist he does that he will ask for a trade and retire. John will not pitch for that amount of money next season. You and the Cardinals can take that one to the bank.

  5. #5
    I also gave it an "F". I guess we will be going after some expensive free agent starter's next year.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by seabeachfred View Post
    ... I also know that Lackey will not pitch for $500K. If the Cardinals insist he does that he will ask for a trade and retire. John will not pitch for that amount of money next season. You and the Cardinals can take that one to the bank.
    If that's true then Lackey is a huge jackass and fuck him and good riddance. He was literally the worst starting pitcher in MLB in 2011 and got paid over $15 million. Then he didn't pitch at all in 2012 and got paid over $15 million. And now he's not going to honor the last year on his contract that he willingly signed.

    It almost has to be true, or otherwise that trade makes no sense, and it's still not a great trade. If Craig doesn't rebound, then they basically gave Lackey away. I'm not counting on Joe Kelly to do anything except maybe be a mediocre bullpen arm.

  7. #7
    I thought he did really really well.

    - Lester for Cespedes. It's a bit of a bummer that they didn't get more years of control, but they got a proven MLB bat that will hit 40 HR at Fenway. Hits to all fields. It's not perfect, but this year alone, Cespedes has hit 5 balls to LF in OAK that were outs that would have been either doubles or homers at Fenway. Consider also the massive foul ball territory, and he's probably good for a .270/.335/.500 line (which, according to Szymborski, ZIPS has him at .274/.327/.486, and thats generally conservative offensively). They also traded him to a situation where there is virtually no risk of resigning, and there are already many reports out that they're going to go hard after him in the offseason. I'm not sure what prospect packages were available, but I know none of the Dodgers were, and I know if you're looking at someone like Bell from the Pirates, he's in the low minors, and thus is a long way away. All these moves were made with an eye toward 2015, which I approve of.

    Lackey for Kelly & Craig - Kind of a weird deal, but I like this deal for the Sox. Craig is underperforming right now, but from 2011-2013, he hit .312/.364/.500, which is a 139 wRC+. That's better than Goldschmidt, Beltre, Longo, Tulo, and plenty of other players (its 16th best in all of baseball). He's a pull hitter who, at Fenway, will probably help him get rewarded for some balls he's making good enough contact on to bang off the wall but is a flyout elsewhere. He's signed to a very team friendly deal considering the production that he's capable of providing. Joe Kelly is having a bit of a down year, but I want to see what Farrell and Nieves can do for him. The stuff is outrageous. 96-98 with plus sink, 54.3% GB rate. He's struggled this year, but he's got a .330 BABIP and a low strand rate (70.3%). He's probably a solid #3, but I can see him having a few mid-3 ERA seasons. Also - he's not arbitration eligible until 2016 and isn't a FA until 2019.

    Those were the big deals. I don't know much about the Orioles prospect the Sox got.

    Overall though, I thought Ben did really, really well. He could have gone after a few prospects, but for me, give me a guy like Craig and Kelly who have proven MLB track records, maybe having a bit of a down year, but have excellent ceilings over a prospect who may have a couple extra years of control but have massive risk attached to them, and who knows how much they struggle when they arrive.

    Oh, and for Fred, Craig hit .454/.500/.638 in 152 PA with RISP last year. He's having a down year all around but certainly a guy who can bounce back easy. Cespedes is hitting .291/.351/.513 w RISP this year.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd98 View Post
    If that's true then Lackey is a huge jackass and fuck him and good riddance. He was literally the worst starting pitcher in MLB in 2011 and got paid over $15 million. Then he didn't pitch at all in 2012 and got paid over $15 million. And now he's not going to honor the last year on his contract that he willingly signed.

    It almost has to be true, or otherwise that trade makes no sense, and it's still not a great trade. If Craig doesn't rebound, then they basically gave Lackey away. I'm not counting on Joe Kelly to do anything except maybe be a mediocre bullpen arm.
    That is all reported hearsay - not coming from him. It would be typical that management leaked that though. He was terrible in 2011, but his elbow was barely hanging off his arm. I think he earned a lot of his teammates admiration for battling. He is a warrior.

    Deal is odd - think he'd have gotten a bigger return.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palodios View Post
    I gave an F.

    I understand the Lester trade. I liked the Miller trade. I don't like giving the Yankees a player for money, and I consider the Lackey trade the worst trade in my time as a Red Sox fan -- and that includes the Lowrie trade.
    Lowrie trade was worse. Trading an actual starter for a middle reliever is height of foolishness. The Lackey deal is not a great return, but the Melancon deal was much worse.

    I gave the team a C+. They landed the best prospect that got dealt the entire day - and found solutions to their corner outfield problems. They clearly have not punted on 2015 - nor should they - and they did improve their team in spots where they had little organizational depth. At the same time - it feels like Lester and Lackey should have netted more, the latter in particular. At the same time, when you see how little the Rays got for David Price, it is possible that such a deal might not have been there. It is interesting that all 3 of the big deals for starters today, the team ended up taking back major league bodies instead of prospect bulk.

    Drew trade was a nothingburger. They want to give X reps at SS, and they had a chance to save money. When you put the white flag up, who cares what team you are helping, especially since the players dealt in the division were both rentals.
    Last edited by sk7326; 07-31-2014 at 08:12 PM.

  10. #10
    I don't know how anyone could give Ben an F today when David Price got back a low A SS, Nick Franklin, and Drew Smyly.

    Lester & Lackey both got better returns than that. You have to look at what the market bore, not just what your dreamland trade was.

    As a sidenote - you know whats going to be fun this summer and next?? Watching JBJ and Cespedes throwing bullets from the OF. And now that we have a couple bats in the OF (Craig & Cespedes), we can afford to let JBJ flaunt his defense and develop offensively.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFanForsyth View Post
    I don't know how anyone could give Ben an F today when David Price got back a low A SS, Nick Franklin, and Drew Smyly.
    Because he's Ben The Boob and his bosses are cheapskates who would rather woo everyone with smoke and mirrors instead of building a good honest ballclub. Don't you listen to WEEI or read the forums?

    /hopefullyobvioussarcasm

  12. #12
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    I have no fucking idea. And I can tell nobody else does either because of the massive disparities of opinions I've read. There is no consensus among the fans, that's for sure. But the scribes seem to think the Red Sox did well.

  13. #13
    Going to be hilarious when this team goes on a tear in August and September and actually make this race closer than it ever should have been.

  14. #14
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFanForsyth View Post
    Going to be hilarious when this team goes on a tear in August and September and actually make this race closer than it ever should have been.
    Seriously? Our starting rotation is slightly diminished from a day ago.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Seriously? Our starting rotation is slightly diminished from a day ago.
    Just saying, just wait and see. I'm not counting on it, I'm just saying I could see some of the young guys (Ranaudo, RDLR) coming up and throwing really well, along with Kelley. Who knows, maybe even Buch turns it around. Again, not predicting it or saying it will happen, I'm saying it will be hilarious if it does.

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