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Thread: Let the Swihart watch begin

  1. #31
    The main point of my post was that a catcher is more important to run preventíon that a ss. That is not arguable. The other is that for all the whining about xb's defense, he could improve. That is a possibility.

    For the lot of you who think that overall D can't help negate for some ss's defensive deficiencies, you are dead wrong. With the advent of defensive shifts around baseball, and with a team as research-inclined as this one, shifts will absolutely impact overall defensive efficiency for this team next year. Having good defenders to either side will absolutely help Bogaerts mask some of his deficiencies, and this isn't something left to the eye test, it can and will be quantified. Hit me up again next year regarding this subject.

    And jacko, as always, you speak half truth here. Again, defensive shifts make a major impact now that wasn't around during Jeter's prime.
    We miss you Mike.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by User Name? View Post
    The main point of my post was that a catcher is more important to run preventíon that a ss. That is not arguable. The other is that for all the whining about xb's defense, he could improve. That is a possibility.

    For the lot of you who think that overall D can't help negate for some ss's defensive deficiencies, you are dead wrong. With the advent of defensive shifts around baseball, and with a team as research-inclined as this one, shifts will absolutely impact overall defensive efficiency for this team next year. Having good defenders to either side will absolutely help Bogaerts mask some of his deficiencies, and this isn't something left to the eye test, it can and will be quantified. Hit me up again next year regarding this subject.

    And jacko, as always, you speak half truth here. Again, defensive shifts make a major impact now that wasn't around during Jeter's prime.
    Good post.

    Also, I saw interviews with Ortiz and Prince Fielder before the 2014 season started. Both said that the shift is much more of an effect on their BA / OBP / OPS. Ortiz says it means about 30-50 points lost. Fielder says that it is not so easy to become good at hitting against the shift.

    Personally, while I see it as an obvious thing to do especially with computers making it so easy, I hate the shift. I like seeing singles and doubles not ground outs to right field.

    Shifts can definitely have an impact on a defensive player as well. That should be obvious, too.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by User Name? View Post
    The main point of my post was that a catcher is more important to run preventíon that a ss. That is not arguable. The other is that for all the whining about xb's defense, he could improve. That is a possibility.

    For the lot of you who think that overall D can't help negate for some ss's defensive deficiencies, you are dead wrong. With the advent of defensive shifts around baseball, and with a team as research-inclined as this one, shifts will absolutely impact overall defensive efficiency for this team next year. Having good defenders to either side will absolutely help Bogaerts mask some of his deficiencies, and this isn't something left to the eye test, it can and will be quantified. Hit me up again next year regarding this subject.

    And jacko, as always, you speak half truth here. Again, defensive shifts make a major impact now that wasn't around during Jeter's prime.
    Truly anyone who thinks that you can mask a player's inabilities in the field via any shift is probably someone whose opinion I don't value. Good luck to you and all your special thoughts. I am not an XB hater. I want him to make it but I would be pleasantly surprised with respect to his abilities in the field. I do think that he will hit. Let it go or whatever.

  4. #34
    Shifts are always fads. They started in the 1940's with the Boudreau shift on TeddyBallgame. The shifts of today made popular by genius, Joe Maddon and copied by everyone will start to fade. Moving everyone to one side of the diamond should be done sparingly and only against the games best power hitters. Even if they decide to take the ball the other way, you take their strength away. You'll cede the single to keep the ball in the yard. The trouble is that there are only a few hitters who are that dangerous, yet the shifts are done much more than that.

    The rest of the league who are not big thumpers will learn to take the singles. Also, pitchers will start to get fed up with it because in many ways it takes away the outside part of the plate when the pitcher gets 2 strikes on a hitter. Nothing pisses off a pitcher more than getting ahead 0-2 and having the guy get a cheapie the other way that fielder would have caught but for the shift.
    Last edited by a700hitter; 12-26-2014 at 05:55 PM.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    This is true. Baseball is such a random sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Shifts are always fads. They started in the 1940's with the Boudreau shift on TeddyBallgame. The shifts of today made popular by genius, Joe Maddon and copied by everyone will start to fade. Moving everyone to one side of the diamond should be done sparingly and only against the games best power hitters. Even if they decide to take the ball the other way, you take their strength away. You'll cede the single to keep the ball in the yard. The trouble is that there are only a few hitters who are that dangerous, yet the shifts are done much more than that.

    The rest of the league who are not big thumpers will learn to take the singles. Also, pitchers will start to get fed up with it because in many ways it takes away the outside part of the plate when the pitcher gets 2 strikes on a hitter. Nothing pisses off a pitcher more than getting ahead 0-2 and having the guy get a cheapie the other way that fielder would have caught but for the shift.
    Maddon will have his fun with the Cubs for sure. I agree with respect to your comments about the shift. I watched Ted ignore them. A lot of people bitched about his approach and felt that he should hit away from them. I think that he did alright doing what he did. Let's see how Madden's shifts work out in the National League.

  6. #36
    Shifts will be around until we see some upswing in offensive numbers again.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Shifts will be around until we see some upswing in offensive numbers again.
    Those posters like User who insist that these shifts can mask defensive deficiencies will hold a lot of water and be fairly accurate as long as hitters try and hit through the shift. It was fine for Ted Williams because he was arguably the greatest hitter who ever lived if you take average, home runs, RBI's, OBP and other things into consideration. However, for others it could add up to decreased production and effectiveness as a hitter. As one who coached for over 30 years I was able to help most of my players learn to hit to the opposite field. It really wasn't all that difficult for the most part, and I was dealing with amateur players and a few who barely got a couple of years in the low minors. If they could do it these Major League hitters with five to ten times the talent should be able to learn those basics from the time they sign until they reach the Bigs. Major League batting coaches are pretty talented and smart teachers and it hard to believe they couldn't teach players to use the whole field unless the players are stubborn and simply don't want to learn those skills.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by cp176 View Post
    Truly anyone who thinks that you can mask a player's inabilities in the field via any shift is probably someone whose opinion I don't value. Good luck to you and all your special thoughts. I am not an XB hater. I want him to make it but I would be pleasantly surprised with respect to his abilities in the field. I do think that he will hit. Let it go or whatever.
    Then you don't value the opinion of a lot of people who know a hell of a lot more about baseball than you or i do. Good luck with that.

    Also, this is a forum geared towards baseball discussion in general, especifically referring to the Boston Red Sox. I am discussing the Red Sox. If you don't like it, feel free to either stop whining, continue the discussion, or put me on ignore.
    Last edited by User Name?; 12-26-2014 at 09:14 PM.
    We miss you Mike.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Shifts will be around until we see some upswing in offensive numbers again.
    Power needs to improve. You can't shift around a home run, but in the meantime, they will continue to suppress offensive production, as has been quantifiably proven. Numbers don't lie, yet opinions are like assholes and all that.
    We miss you Mike.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by User Name? View Post
    Then you don't value the opinion of a lot of people who know a hell of a lot more about baseball than you or i do. Good luck with that.

    Also, this is a forum geared towards baseball discussion in general, especifically referring to the Boston Red Sox. I am discussing the Red Sox. If you don't like it, feel free to either stop whining, continue the discussion, or put me on ignore.
    Ooh - I have been scolded. Like reading your posts buddy, just don't agree with everything you say.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by User Name? View Post
    The main point of my post was that a catcher is more important to run preventíon that a ss. That is not arguable. The other is that for all the whining about xb's defense, he could improve. That is a possibility.

    For the lot of you who think that overall D can't help negate for some ss's defensive deficiencies, you are dead wrong. With the advent of defensive shifts around baseball, and with a team as research-inclined as this one, shifts will absolutely impact overall defensive efficiency for this team next year. Having good defenders to either side will absolutely help Bogaerts mask some of his deficiencies, and this isn't something left to the eye test, it can and will be quantified. Hit me up again next year regarding this subject.

    And jacko, as always, you speak half truth here. Again, defensive shifts make a major impact now that wasn't around during Jeter's prime.
    Can't you just admit you're wrong here? Yes, shifts are more prevalent now. But the LH shift usually leaves the SS all alone on the left side of the diamond, which will only exacerbate the problem should a ball get hit his way. You are telling me that the shift negates the fact that XB is a minus defender? Are you now saying that they'll be shifting to cover his lack of skill on defense? Shifting to cover for XB will leave holes elsewhere in your defense. Like I have said before, you have a staff led by a groundball pitcher. Said groundball pitcher has a bad SS behind him. There is no shift that fixes that.
    How many more years left in ARod's contract?

  12. #42
    The SS is still going to get the bulk of plays in the infield whether or not a team uses shifts. Use of shifts will not help a ShortStops fielding deficiencies. In fact it might highlight certain weaknesses. XB's footwork from the standard shortstop position is not good. Occasionally, when in the shift a shortstop has to turn a DP from the other side of second base requiring the footwork of a second baseman.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    This is true. Baseball is such a random sport.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst

  13. #43
    El mar no cesa iortiz's Avatar
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    While shifts are a nice "resource", STILL each individual performance at D is needed, mostly at SS spot when u have GB pitchers, no rocket science here. Hopefully XB improves his glove otherwise it could be a long season for him and the GB combo signed.
    Tiburones Rojos de Veracruz & Boston Red Sox

    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
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  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    Can't you just admit you're wrong here? Yes, shifts are more prevalent now. But the LH shift usually leaves the SS all alone on the left side of the diamond, which will only exacerbate the problem should a ball get hit his way. You are telling me that the shift negates the fact that XB is a minus defender? Are you now saying that they'll be shifting to cover his lack of skill on defense? Shifting to cover for XB will leave holes elsewhere in your defense. Like I have said before, you have a staff led by a groundball pitcher. Said groundball pitcher has a bad SS behind him. There is no shift that fixes that.
    You're still not very good at reading after all these years, which is surprising. Read it again. Mask "some" of his deficiencies. Not turn him into an above-average SS overnight. In that respect, i said he "could" improve, but that's something out of the team's control.
    We miss you Mike.

  15. #45
    He absolutely could improve. But in all honesty, how many large framed SS get better defensively as they age? Usually the offense kicks up and the defense kicks down. And this isn't meant as a knock on Bogaerts. I think he's gonna be an All Star caliber SS in 2015, just not defensively
    How many more years left in ARod's contract?

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