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Thread: Keith Law's Prospect Stuff on Sawx

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  1. #1
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    Keith Law's Prospect Stuff on Sawx

    That time of year. I do respect the paywall, so just put out the relevant extracts:

    http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story...0prospects2015

    http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story...-prospects-mlb

    http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/story...kings-2015-mlb

    Red Sox #5 system in the league

    The Red Sox lost four top-10 prospects to promotions last year, yet they remain a top-5 system, thanks to big moves forward by Blake Swihart, Manuel Margot and Rafael Devers, the latter of whom will play all of 2015 at age 18, and the midseason trade that netted them lefty Eduardo Rodriguez, now their No. 2-ranked pitching prospect.
    Guys in the Top 100

    10. Blake Swihart (#56 last year)

    In an era when no one seems to have any catching, the Red Sox are fortunate enough to have two young backstops close to major league-ready in defensive specialist Christian Vazquez, now their primary catcher for 2015, and top prospect Swihart, a supreme athlete who is nearly as good a defender as Vazquez but with All-Star upside with the bat.

    Swihart is a switch-hitter who was a part-time catcher in high school but has taken to the position incredibly well in pro ball, improving rapidly in every aspect of the game, to the point where he's now a plus or better receiver with a 65 to 70 arm (nailing 46 percent of would-be base stealers in 2014). He's built like a middle infielder or center fielder, with a lithe, athletic body, and runs better than most backstops do. At the plate, his hand-eye coordination is outstanding and has helped carry him as his pitch recognition and power have developed over the past three seasons. His right-handed swing is better and still produces more power, but he's improving from the left side and has the loft to hit 10-15 homers against right-handers.

    The Red Sox have long raved about Swihart's work ethic and aptitude, both critical in developing a true two-way catcher given the mental and physical demands of the job.
    20. Henry Owens (#42 last year)

    Owens continues to rack up huge strikeout numbers (fourth in the minors in 2014) despite the lack of a big fastball, thanks to one of the minors' best changeups and a ton of deception that leaves hitters guessing until it's almost too late to adjust to whatever he's thrown. He still has some projection remaining, and some work to do on the breaking ball, putting him perhaps a half-year away from the major league rotation once there's a spot for him.

    Owens will pitch at 90-94 mph, even sitting in the lower end of that range but getting a little more velocity once he needs it. The changeup is his money pitch, as his arm speed is indistinguishable between that and the fastball and he knows how and when to use it, but in the early part of 2014, hitters started to adjust to the fact that he was mostly fastball/changeup, forcing him to work on the curveball more to change eye levels. That pitch, in the mid- to upper 60s in high school, is now 72-76 and at least fringe-average with a change to be above-average to plus in time; the spin is there, but the rotation needs to keep getting tighter, though the fact that he can throw it for strikes is a huge help already. He'll probably pitch with an average fastball or just slightly better, but a 70 change and a 55 curveball with good command and an advanced feel for setting up hitters adds up to a well above-average major league starter.
    29. Eduardo Rodriguez (#43 last year)

    The Red Sox stole Rodriguez from the Orioles in a deadline deal for reliever Andrew Miller, who is a great pitcher to be sure, but not enough to make me willing to give up six years of Rodriguez, who has the elements to be a No. 1 starter with a few developmental hurdles ahead of him. Rodriguez is up to 97 mph with his fastball and will sit between 93 and 95, with a plus changeup, quick arm and athletic delivery. He seemed to gain confidence after the trade, throwing harder with better strikes once he went to Boston.

    Fastball command is one real issue, although the Red Sox were pleased with how well he could work side to side with the pitch, and the slider is another, as I've seen it anywhere from a 50 grade to a 40. To be a No. 1 or No. 2, he needs to have that as a solid average or better pitch. He turns 22 in April, young enough for these two problem areas to improve, and the change of scenery seems to have agreed with him. He's not major league-ready, and is not likely to be so this year, but he should be in Boston's rotation in 2016.
    55. Rafael Devers (Unranked last year)

    Devers signed in July 2013 for $1.5 million, and the Red Sox, believing his approach was mature enough to handle it, pushed him to the Gulf Coast League midway through this summer. Despite his youth -- he was the third-youngest regular in the GCL -- and his late arrival, he finished tied for eighth the league in homers, and was also 12th in slugging percentage. Everything he does at the plate is easy; his wrists are extremely strong and quick, so he can backspin the ball all over the field, crush it to right-center or drive it out to the left-field wall, and he adjusts very well to changing speeds. He's very capable at third base despite his broad frame, with quick feet and more agility than you'd expect from his build, although he split time at the position last year with first-round pick Michael Chavis.

    Devers turned 18 in October and is probably three years away from the majors in an optimistic scenario, but he has All-Star upside, with the bat speed and strength to hit 30 homers and still post high batting averages while staying at third base.
    70. Manuel Margot (Listed last year as org sleeper)

    Margot isn't flashy or explosive like system mate Rafael Devers, but he has been very steady and performed very well last year in two full-season leagues, all before his 20th birthday. He's an above-average defender in center field with good reads, and he has a simple, selective approach at the plate that has allowed him to succeed even when facing older and more experienced competition. His swing has good rotation but produces only doubles power; he might peak at 12 to 15 homers but could be a 35-plus doubles guy because he's able to go the other way so effectively.

    He's currently a plus runner and should be a stolen-base threat in the majors as long as he doesn't get too big, although that same issue would be the only reason he'd move out of center field. It's a strong leadoff profile with the chance for high OBPs and 30-odd steals a year along with grade-60 defense, as long as he continues to work on his patience and can maintain his conditioning to stay in center.

  2. #2
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Crazy seeing Devers and Margot on here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Crazy seeing Devers and Margot on here!
    Devers in a full season league as an 18 year old is really really exciting stuff. Same with Margot being able to potentially get to Portland before he can legally drink.

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    The preamble - to give an idea of the formula

    The Guidelines
    • The rankings are limited to players who still have rookie eligibility; that means they have yet to exceed 130 at-bats or 50 innings pitched in the majors and have not yet spent 45 days on the active roster of a major league club, excluding call-ups during the roster expansion period after Sept. 1. That means Milwaukee Brewers infielder Luis Sardinas, for instance, is ineligible, based on his days on the 25-man roster.

    • Only players who have signed professional contracts are eligible.

    • I do not consider players with professional experience in Japan or Korea "prospects" for the purpose of this exercise, which means no Jung-Ho Kang this year (among others). I also exclude Cuban players who are considered professional free agents by Major League Baseball by virtue of their experience in Cuba's Serie Nacional de Béisbol. This list includes Rusney Castillo and Yasmany Tomas, but will consider Cuban players whom MLB treats as amateurs, like Roberto Baldoquin (who just missed this list) and Yoan Lopez.

    • When ranking players, I consider scouting reports on players -- usually my own, supplemented with conversations with other scouts and front-office executives as needed -- as well as performance, adjusted for age and context. I've made one adjustment in my ranking philosophy in recent years, favoring higher-upside prospects over lower-ceiling prospects who are closer to the majors. This better reflects how these players are valued now by front offices and scouting departments, and gives me a chance to deliver more information on prospects whose names or scouting reports might be new to you.

    • I use the 20-80 grading scale in these comments to avoid saying "average" and "above average" thousands of times across the 100 player comments. On that scale, a grade of 50 equals major league average, 55 is above average, 60 is plus, 45 is fringy or below average and so on. Giancarlo Stanton has 80 raw power. David Ortiz has 20 speed. Carlos Gomez is an 80 defender. An average fastball for a right-hander is 90-92 mph, with 1-2 mph off for a lefty.

    • I've included last year's rank for players who appeared in the top 100 in 2014. An "ineligible" player was still an amateur at this time last January, whereas an "unranked" player was eligible but didn't make the cut. I've also tagged players who were on last year's sleepers list or list of 10 players who just missed the cut.

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    Welcome back SK! Great stuff man!
    We miss you Mike.

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    Very good stuff. I particularly enjoy reading about the young guys who have such high upside at 18-20 years old.

  7. #7
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    Couple of chat items:

    John (Boston)

    How much consideration did Red Sox LP Brian Johnson get? Was he close?
    Klaw (1:28 PM)

    Another high-floor, low-ceiling guy. Pitches with an average fastball, no knockout pitch.

    ---------------------------------

    Johnny (Billerica, MA)

    Blake Swihart, what is the plan with him? Long-term Catcher? A move to 1B? Trade Vasquez? Thanks!
    Klaw (1:39 PM)

    Catcher. No-doubt catcher.

    --------------------
    Tim (AZ)

    How important was position of the player in determinging ranking? For example does a player like Susac get rated higher because he plays a premium position?
    Klaw (1:45 PM)

    Yes, absiolutely. Catchers and shortstops rule. First basemen are scarce. I think Dom Smith is the highest 1b on the list, and even he's probably a bit controversial because he didn't hit for power last year.

    ----------------------------
    John (Boston)

    Thanks for your time Keith. From the little that I've seen and his age, does Rafael Devers have the potential to sky rocket towards the top 10 next year? I'm as excited about him as anyone.
    Klaw (2:13 PM)

    If you want one guy in 51-100 who could race up to the top 10-15 next year, I think I'd say him. Sky seems to be the limit.

  8. #8
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    One guy not mentioned in this list that I'm going to be keeping an eye on is Sean Coyle. I'm honestly not sure why this kid doesn't get more attention.

    The big knocks on him right now are plate discipline (k/bb is not where it needs to be) and the fact that we have so much depth at his major position (coyle is a 2B) so they're trying him at third base which is also obviously now overloaded. But a guy athletic enough to play second and practiced at third means Coyle could play a lot of positions -- the ones he plays now, plus potentially first and both corner OF slots. So if it came to finding a way to get his bat into the lineup once said bat is ready, I'm sure the team could figure it out.

    And his hitting numbers in Portland last year were impressive. 16 HR's and a 11 SB with a .883 OPS at age 22 in Portland, which I think is actually on the young side IIRC for AA, while playing mostly second base, is a player worth paying attention to. He's going to be 23 in Pawtucket next year, if he keeps his hitting up we could see him. Keep an eye on Coyle .
    Last edited by Dojji; 01-30-2015 at 10:45 AM.
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

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    That's because most prospect projections use the 20-80 scale as one of the main components of their reports, and Coyle doesn't grade particularly well on any of the tools evaluated by it.
    We miss you Mike.

  10. #10
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name? View Post
    That's because most prospect projections use the 20-80 scale as one of the main components of their reports, and Coyle doesn't grade particularly well on any of the tools evaluated by it.
    So typical Dojji guy then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    So typical Dojji guy then?
    He seems to appreciate probability more than upside - which is fine but runs counter to the industry. I appreciate probability too - but (and this is where the Red Sox being a high payroll team matters) a team like Boston only needs its farm system to produce its future studs. (and maybe a lower level for starting pitcher but you get the idea) There are plenty of other avenues available to find the middle class guys which does not blow up their budget.

    Personally, Devers starting full season ball as an 18 year old is the most tantalizing of the possibilities, and that is not a dig at all at Margot who has been nearly as accomplished. More than anything - that the Red Sox themselves feel these guys can handle aggressive promotion and challenge says a ton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by User Name? View Post
    That's because most prospect projections use the 20-80 scale as one of the main components of their reports, and Coyle doesn't grade particularly well on any of the tools evaluated by it.

    You mean 20-80 guys like Will Middlebrooks and Josh Reddick? yeah those guys ended well for us.

    I'll take a guy with enough present talent to produce at a starter level plus the polish to actually see some of that production quickly, over a guy who's so talented he gets away with all his bad habits in the minors. Sometimes those guys are the ones that really learned how to compete and improve their game, while the heirs apparent with all the 80 ratings by the scouts were more interested in impressing scouts with their ridiculous toolkits to put a toolbox around them.

    learning how to work hard and earn your way is more important than raw talent as long as a player has enough talent to work with. Coyle is a prospect worth keeping an eye on due to the fact that he's using a limited toolset to compete at a very high level as a middle infielder in the Boston system. That ability is a tool of its own I believe.
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    You mean 20-80 guys like Will Middlebrooks and Josh Reddick? yeah those guys ended well for us.

    I'll take a guy with enough present talent to produce at a starter level plus the polish to actually see some of that production quickly, over a guy who's so talented he gets away with all his bad habits in the minors. Sometimes those guys are the ones that really learned how to compete and improve their game, while the heirs apparent with all the 80 ratings by the scouts were more interested in impressing scouts with their ridiculous toolkits to put a toolbox around them.

    learning how to work hard and earn your way is more important than raw talent as long as a player has enough talent to work with. Coyle is a prospect worth keeping an eye on due to the fact that he's using a limited toolset to compete at a very high level as a middle infielder in the Boston system. That ability is a tool of its own I believe.
    Did you even bother to read the other post i made?
    We miss you Mike.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    You mean 20-80 guys like Will Middlebrooks and Josh Reddick? yeah those guys ended well for us.

    I'll take a guy with enough present talent to produce at a starter level plus the polish to actually see some of that production quickly, over a guy who's so talented he gets away with all his bad habits in the minors. Sometimes those guys are the ones that really learned how to compete and improve their game, while the heirs apparent with all the 80 ratings by the scouts were more interested in impressing scouts with their ridiculous toolkits to put a toolbox around them.

    learning how to work hard and earn your way is more important than raw talent as long as a player has enough talent to work with. Coyle is a prospect worth keeping an eye on due to the fact that he's using a limited toolset to compete at a very high level as a middle infielder in the Boston system. That ability is a tool of its own I believe.
    Who doesn't like overachievers? After all, that's what Bogaerts and Betts are - or at least what you call guys who crush levels they shouldn't be able to compete at normally.

    Coyle is an interesting guy - 30 homeruns in the last 140+ games is nothing to sneeze at. At the same time, the frame is tiny, and looking at the scouting reports there is a guy who tries to hit like Dustin Pedroia without that freakish ability to get on top of high cheese. He is an interesting guy - both to watch and as potential trade part. There are probably a few places where he could play an acceptable major league 2B right now.

    Since I was not on the board pre-2013, I don't know how smitten the community was with Middlebrooks. At the time, I was skeptical because he was chasing everything and getting results. Without being a Nomar or Vlad sort of gift for squaring up pitches, that is a hard way to be. But he was such a good athlete that some late blooming made sense. I certainly thought the org and fans were hasty anointing Will as the solution - and his inability to improve himself has been fatal combined with the injuries. Reddick is an interesting case too - unlike Will he does lots of things at a legitimately good major league level. He just has poor plate discipline - although in Oakland a couple of years ago he improved things enough to allow the total package to shine through. Frankly, that was my wish for Middlebrooks. He was never going to be a Mike Napoli at the plate - but if he could have worked on his defense and been able to produce a .310 sort of OBP with a lot of power behind it - that is a solid starter. But alas. Once he declined to take some AFL reps I was done. That said, if he figured some things out in SD, I would not be stunned - good athletes are still worth betting on.

    Guys don't get promoted without some performance under the tools - that's why my crush now is Rafael Devers. Clearly, there is still a ton to be written about his future - he could flame out. But you talk about a guy who put up a .900 OPS in his first taste of pro ball as the third youngest kid there, who is already 6 feet, 200 lbs and will be 18 the entirety of next season, and whose power and athleticism have left scouts shaking their head. He's the guy in the system who could be a future MVP. (Margot's upside is MVP production but voters like chicks dig the long ball)

    BTW: It's the funny part of the Sandoval signing. By no means should a big league club not fill a vacancy at 3B because of some 17 year old who just finished short season ball. HOWEVER, there is a small but legitimate possibility that Devers could be the sort of freight train which will force the org to rethink the 3B situation much sooner than anybody is thinking. I am excited.

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    Actually no. Unlike most Dojji types, Coyle actually has the makings of a solid MLB regular, especially with the low offensive demands of a middle-infielder and his line-drive swing. The problem is that in the current scouting landscape, tools and projection have taken renewed significance, leaving behind production-based analytics even more so than before.

    However, the Dojji kiss of death is real, and i expect Coyle to be selling used cars for a living come 2017.
    We miss you Mike.

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