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Thread: Christian Vazquez

  1. #1

    Christian Vazquez

    The kid has already proved he has elite defense. Most ive talked to think hes an automatic out and wanted Swihart here for his bat. I am a big fan of an elite defensive catcher. Moreso than any other position on the field, i will sacrifice offense for that elite D behind the plate.
    With that said, Christian Vazquez WILL hit IMO, and will hit better than a lot of fans think. Will he do it right away? I believe he has already to a certain extent since most thought 220 would be about it...I believe he could be a 280+ hitter in MLB. Line drive gap to gap power. May run into 5-10 hr in a good year... Around a 700 OPS just because the SLG wont be really high.
    Since being told in AA to start concentrating on his offense more, Vaz has shown a solid approach at the plate. His K rate went down and his bb rate went up. He was starting to make more solid contact and seeing more pitches. When being promoted to another level in the minors his BA was always around 275-280.
    IMHO The Sox made the right choice when Vaz proved to be healthy. I know some were gushing over swihart, but I didnt like what I saw behind the plate at this point from him. He will certainly improve, but Im betting he will be involved in a trade this summer or winter for another starter...
    Vazquez is the man here for the next decade...and the skeptics, IMO, will see over the next few years just how good of an all around ballplayer Vaz is going to be...

  2. #2
    if he hits .280 and 10+ HR's a season he will go down as one of the greatest C of all time IMO......
    he is young enough so he obviously has not peaked offensively yet. those numbers are within reach. Last year i was definitely on the "swihart is our man going forward" bus but it was easy to dismiss Vaz while he was recovering from TJ.....put me in as a "believer" now. Swihart is gone in july.......
    other names i have posted under: none

  3. #3
    Even if he hits to his current career numbers 240/310/370, he's worth keeping in the lineup. The only concern would be if he dips to lower than 220/280/350. The rest of the lineup can carry his meager bat due to his outstanding glove.

    I like Swihart, but it looked like he didn't have the confidence he needed behind the plate. I hope he figures it out, but it's Vazquez's position to lose now.
    Fire Farrell - fucking check mark!
    Trade Pedroia
    Sign JD Martinez to play 1B/DH
    Sign Alex Cora for MGR

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Even if he hits to his current career numbers 240/310/370, he's worth keeping in the lineup. The only concern would be if he dips to lower than 220/280/350. The rest of the lineup can carry his meager bat due to his outstanding glove.

    I like Swihart, but it looked like he didn't have the confidence he needed behind the plate. I hope he figures it out, but it's Vazquez's position to lose now.
    Agreed. If he can keep the OPS above .650 I'm happy.

  5. #5
    The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.

  6. #6
    Hanigan is an excellent backup catcher and a perfect fit to pair with a young up-and-comer like Vazquez. There is no reason to throw him away just to rush Swihart back to the majors. Swihart will get tons of chances after this year. There is no need to be overaggressive with promoting Swihart.

    people forget the only reason he was ever in the majors was as an injury replacement. There's simply no need for him right now. The man needs at least 2 years of full time reps in order to get his catching skills down and there is NWIH he wuill get that in Boston. He needs to be in the minors right now.
    Last edited by Dojji; 05-19-2016 at 12:04 PM.
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.
    I'd rather see Swihart playing every day in Pawtucket than being the backup catcher in Boston. Agree on the move to left field, though, as I'm not sure his bat is or will be good enough to make a positional move worth it and I'd rather see him focusing on becoming a top-flight catcher.

    I'm thinking he goes in a trade for a pitcher this summer regardless, though.
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    Hanigan is an excellent backup catcher and a perfect fit to pair with a young up-and-comer like Vazquez. There is no reason to throw him away just to rush Swihart back to the majors. Swihart will get tons of chances after this year. There is no need to be overaggressive with promoting Swihart.

    people forget the only reason he was ever in the majors was as an injury replacement. There's simply no need for him right now. The man needs at least 2 years of full time reps in order to get his catching skills down and there is NWIH he wuill get that in Boston. He needs to be in the minors right now.
    How did you come up with "at least 2 years of full time reps"?

    Is it possible that he could make sufficient strides this year alone?
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    How did you come up with "at least 2 years of full time reps"?

    Is it possible that he could make sufficient strides this year alone?
    One year? That seems to be a pretty liberal time frame for seeing a substantial defensive improvement out of him.
    Fire Farrell - fucking check mark!
    Trade Pedroia
    Sign JD Martinez to play 1B/DH
    Sign Alex Cora for MGR

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    One year? That seems to be a pretty liberal time frame for seeing a substantial defensive improvement out of him.
    I think so.

    It's not like he has not put a bunch of time and "reps" into the process to date.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  11. #11
    I have assumed Swihart needed to switch to the outfield, but here is the scouting report on him--

    Physical Description: Athletic build, lean muscle, solid core. Has filed out considerably since signing, especially in his lower half, but still has some room for added bulk without losing athleticism.

    Hit: Switch hitter with fluid, line-drive stroke from both sides. Plus bat speed and bat control through the zone with loud, consistent contact. Uses whole field. Solid pitch recognition, hand-eye coordination, and understanding of the strike zone. Future plus hit tool (.275-.285 average) with average-to-above-average on-base percentage. Battles. Doesn’t use batting gloves.

    Power: Strong for his size. More to come as he physically matures. More present power from the right side. Squares balls up with consistency. Doesn’t sell out for power. However, plus bat speed, raw strength and hand-eye coordination to square balls up consistently will translate to future average power potential (15-20 home runs).

    Arm: Plus-to-better arm strength. Accurate thrower. Gets out of his crouch easily. Consistently throws out runners at a high percentage.

    Field: Consistent sub 2.0 pop times, typically between 1.8-1.9. Athletic behind the plate with quick feet and lateral movements. Frames well, and athleticism provides mobility for excellent blocking skills on balls in the dirt. Future plus defense with plus athleticism. Began getting reps in left field after being optioned back to Pawtucket in April 2016.

    Run: Average runner, but above-average for catcher. Can go first to third and score from second. Alert on the basepaths with good instincts.

    Career Notes: Committed to the University of Texas prior to signing. Primarily played shortstop and outfield in high school. Played for Team USA 18-and-Under National Team in 2010. Also played basketball in high school.

    Summation: Future first-division regular and solid contributor across the board. Potential above-average hit tool and average power potential at a premium defensive position. Athleticism behind the plate immediately stands out. Natural instincts. Confident actions. Elite makeup and strong work ethic. Arguably the best catching prospect in the game right now.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.
    For Swihart to improve behind the plate, he needs to be playing 60-75% of the games, which of course with Vazquez, he isn't going to. Defensively, Swihart has a lot to improve on regarding containing balls in the dirt. I don't get the impression pitchers are especially trusting of him when it comes to throwing a low slider or splitter.

    Remember what Hanigan's role is on this team. The 40% he's playing is catching Wright (which physically has to be like catching 2 games) and babysitting the Kelly/Owens/O'Sullivan slot in the rotation. Not sure that's the slots you want throw Swihart into.

    As for the Globe article, I made the mistake of clicking on that one. If I remember correctly, it was an Eric Wilbur piece. When it comes to that "journalist", if you take what he says and do the opposite, you'll come out ahead almost every time.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    How did you come up with "at least 2 years of full time reps"?

    Is it possible that he could make sufficient strides this year alone?
    Catching takes time to master. There's a reason catching prospects are usually older for prospects when they advance to the big leagues. Unless you draft a polished college catcher it takes that extra year, or year and a half for a catcher to master everything he needs to know in the minors. Well Swihart wasn't a polished college catcher, and I'm judging how much devtime he needs on how raw he looked in the majors.

    Now Swihart did show improvement over time, like any kid will when given a chance to just work for an extended period. That said he's nowhere near ready. The kid has some major learning to do, no shame in that, also no point pretending he doesn't have some issues to deal with. If we were a small market that was used to spending 2 years building for every year we were contending it'd be no problem at all -- just roll Swihart out and let him season on the job. Since we're trying to win every single year, the foibles of an underskilled catcher are something we just can't tolerate right now so we can't use him until he's sorted that stuff out in AAA.

    And even if we do call him up, and even if he hits a little, the kid would go the way of Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who got a bad rap here because he came right after Tek and we were used to catchers who take their defense seriously, which never really described Salty -- a good offensive catcher, and his performance in the regular season earned him that ring of his in 13, but there's a reason David Ross did the majority of the heavy lifting in the playoffs where games matter much more and individual mistakes can destroy a deep playoff run

    That's the kind of defense we'd be seeing from Swihart. He's having to think plays through that should be automatic for him and it shows up as hesitation. He needs just solid reps, the level matters less than the fact that he works behind the plate every day, until he becomes fully comfortable defensively at the position which could take 18 months to 2 years of consistent everyday play. If you're not going to do that with him than call him up now, stash him in left, and let him go as far as his bat will take him.
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    For Swihart to improve behind the plate, he needs to be playing 60-75% of the games, which of course with Vazquez, he isn't going to. Defensively, Swihart has a lot to improve on regarding containing balls in the dirt. I don't get the impression pitchers are especially trusting of him when it comes to throwing a low slider or splitter.

    Remember what Hanigan's role is on this team. The 40% he's playing is catching Wright (which physically has to be like catching 2 games) and babysitting the Kelly/Owens/O'Sullivan slot in the rotation. Not sure that's the slots you want throw Swihart into.

    As for the Globe article, I made the mistake of clicking on that one. If I remember correctly, it was an Eric Wilbur piece. When it comes to that "journalist", if you take what he says and do the opposite, you'll come out ahead almost every time.
    I agree with all of this. Swihart definitely needs to catch more than twice a week. If they release Hanigan & a catcher gets hurt, then where are they? Depth is a good thing & Hanigan is a solid back up catcher.

    The one thing I don't understand is people being all upset about Swihart playing some outfield. Versatility is never a bad thing and it's not like it's diminishing his catching skills. A lot of players start out as catchers and transition to another position. It's not yet known whether his bat could be a plus as an outfielder. Either way, there's no way this kid should be in Boston sitting on the bench 5 days a week.
    Last edited by Eddy Ballgame; 05-19-2016 at 01:58 PM.

  15. #15
    the reason for people to be upset about Swihart playing places other than catcher is that the WHOLE THING about Swihart is that he needs to improve at catcher. If he's playing games regularly in a position that is not catcher, that is not going to progress us toward the point where Swihart is ready to be a #1 catcher either for us or for another team. The whole concept smacks of a counterproductive mixed message that may result in a worse product in the end (and therefore lower trade value)

    Also because his bat is pretty much big league ready now so if you're not going to grind him on the catcher's spot, just bring him up and let him work on his hitting against major league pitchers.
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

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