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Thread: Christian Vazquez

  1. #16
    I see and understand all that you have said.

    I guess that I see him as being a little further along in his development. I think that spending the rest of 2016 catching at AAA will be enough.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  2. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    the reason for people to be upset about Swihart playing places other than catcher is that the WHOLE THING about Swihart is that he needs to improve at catcher. If he's playing games regularly in a position that is not catcher, that is not going to progress us toward the point where Swihart is ready to be a #1 catcher either for us or for another team. The whole concept smacks of a counterproductive mixed message that may result in a worse product in the end (and therefore lower trade value)

    Also because his bat is pretty much big league ready now so if you're not going to grind him on the catcher's spot, just bring him up and let him work on his hitting against major league pitchers.
    Which he could do while playing left field.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  3. #18
    Yes he could. So why is he learning left field in the minors again? If you're not going to commit to him as a fulltime catcher, he's probably good enough to play part time as a third catcher right now if the bat can stick as a left fielder. If you're going to make the guy a left fielder, let him play left field and let us have his bat in the lineup. It's not precisely a difficult position to master, Hanley notwithstanding
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    Yes he could. So why is he learning left field in the minors again? If you're not going to commit to him as a fulltime catcher, he's probably good enough to play part time as a third catcher right now if the bat can stick as a left fielder. If you're going to make the guy a left fielder, let him play left field and let us have his bat in the lineup. It's not precisely a difficult position to master, Hanley notwithstanding
    Swihart is hitting .278 for the year and .250 in AAA.
    I don't see the overwhelming need to bring him back to Boston yet.
    “The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "When you're dead, you don't know you're dead.
    It's only difficult for other people.

    It works the same way for stupid."

  5. #20
    I don't think Swihart is that much of an upgrade over Holt/Young, if any at all. I really don't understand logic of moving him to LF

  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    the reason for people to be upset about Swihart playing places other than catcher is that the WHOLE THING about Swihart is that he needs to improve at catcher. If he's playing games regularly in a position that is not catcher, that is not going to progress us toward the point where Swihart is ready to be a #1 catcher either for us or for another team. The whole concept smacks of a counterproductive mixed message that may result in a worse product in the end (and therefore lower trade value)

    Also because his bat is pretty much big league ready now so if you're not going to grind him on the catcher's spot, just bring him up and let him work on his hitting against major league pitchers.
    If you bring him up, where are you playing him right now? He is catching in Pawtucket more than he's playing left field, so I'm not sure how giving him some versatility is being "counterproductive." What would be counterproductive would be to have him up here sitting on the bench. Where is he getting those at bats in Boston to "work on his hitting?"

    Having him play left may also help Boston sooner rather than later. Holt has a history of struggling in the 2nd half and Chris Young is not an everyday player. It's not that far-fetched to think we might see Swihart as the regular left fielder at some point after the all-star break. He is much more athletic than your average catcher, and reading between the lines, the Red Sox might not see him as an every day catcher at the MLB level.

  7. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SoxnCycles View Post
    Swihart is hitting .278 for the year and .250 in AAA.
    I don't see the overwhelming need to bring him back to Boston yet.
    Swihart is not a normal case when it comes to his minor league offensive numbers. I do not care what he's hitting right now. He was sent down to work on his defensive game, and we know that's what he's focusing most of his time on. The guy's already proven that he can hit a bit at the big league level, he's already demonstrated that he has the offensive skills he needs, I have no doubts there at all and neither should anyone else including the FO. He has nothing to prove offensively until he gets back to the majors.

    People have a tendency to freak out a lot about minor league numbers, when the real question is skillset. For the most part minor league numbers are only useful as an evidence of skillset, and not always useful even for that.

    In this case we already know with some confidence that the offensive skills are there, so these numbers over a month here and a week there just don't bother me at all
    Last edited by Dojji; 05-19-2016 at 02:35 PM.
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.
    What do you mean its time to see if he has what it takes? He was here all last year and for the start of this year and it was painfully obvious he has a lot of work to do defensively as well as learning to call games, work with pitchers and frame pitches. Hes hardly "languishing" in AAA...Hes learning his position where he should, In the minors. I like Hanny better as a BU anyway. He can handle wright better and is a better defender. No need to have Swi "languish" in Boston for 60-70% of the time on the bench when he can play almost every game in AAA.
    My guess is he is trade bait this year anyway. Im sure there will be no shortage of teams interested in him. I like the kid and understand he came up last year out of necessity, but most everyone knows he wasnt done with his development yet. Hes still young for a catcher. Especially one that only just started catching full time once he turned pro.
    Last edited by southpaw777; 05-19-2016 at 02:51 PM.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw777 View Post
    What do you mean its time to see if he has what it takes? He was here all last year and for the start of this year and it was painfully obvious he has a lot of work to do defensively as well as learning to call games, work with pitchers and frame pitches. Hes hardly "languishing" in AAA?..Hes learning his position where he should, In the minors. I like Hanny better as a BU anyway. He can handle wright better and is a better defender. No need to have Swi "languish" in Boston for 60-70% of the time on the bench when he can play almost every game in AAA.
    My guess is he is trade bait this year anyway. Im sure there will be no shortage of teams interested in him. I like the kid and understand he came up last year out of necessity, but most everyone knows he wasnt done with his development yet. Hes still young for a catcher. Especially one that just started catching full time once he turned pro.
    Yup. Varitek was in AA ball at his age.
    other names i have posted under: none

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    Swihart is not a normal case when it comes to his minor league offensive numbers. I do not care what he's hitting right now. He was sent down to work on his defensive game, and we know that's what he's focusing most of his time on. The guy's already proven that he can hit a bit at the big league level, he's already demonstrated that he has the offensive skills he needs, I have no doubts there at all and neither should anyone else including the FO. He has nothing to prove offensively until he gets back to the majors.

    People have a tendency to freak out a lot about minor league numbers, when the real question is skillset. For the most part minor league numbers are only useful as an evidence of skillset, and not always useful even for that.

    In this case we already know with some confidence that the offensive skills are there, so these numbers over a month here and a week there just don't bother me at all
    Yup, we know what he is as a hitter.
    What we don't know is if he can improve enough defensively to be a good catcher.

    The place to do that is Pawtuckett, not Boston.
    “The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons.” -Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "When you're dead, you don't know you're dead.
    It's only difficult for other people.

    It works the same way for stupid."

  11. #26
    absolutely -- unless you've determined that he might not be all that as catcher, which is coincidentally also the only scenario in which I could imagine trying a top catching prospect in a corner outfield position.
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

  12. #27
    It occurs to me there might be another reason for giving Swihart time in LF. Assume he is brought up and catches 30% of games as the backup catcher. If he can play LF, he can start or sub there and still be available as the backup catcher. There is still a risk he would get injured in LF and not be available that game to back up the catcher.

    I agree with everyone that the Sox have had a good look at his catching and found him wanting. However, the scouting report says he can be a good one. Are the Sox scouts stupid?

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxbialystock View Post
    It occurs to me there might be another reason for giving Swihart time in LF. Assume he is brought up and catches 30% of games as the backup catcher. If he can play LF, he can start or sub there and still be available as the backup catcher. There is still a risk he would get injured in LF and not be available that game to back up the catcher.

    I agree with everyone that the Sox have had a good look at his catching and found him wanting. However, the scouting report says he can be a good one. Are the Sox scouts stupid?
    Not at all...he can, and probably will be a good catcher one day...Its just gonna take a bit more time to get there is all.

  14. #29
    Swihart needs to go to a team that's rebuilding that can just play him every day at the big league level and let him learn on the job. That's the ideal way to dispense with Swihart. What remains to be seen is which of them are going to be willing to offer us what we want for them. Perhaps the Twins and Ervin Santana with a couple prospects coming back our way?
    If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.

  15. #30
    Some of us don't want to see him in left field because as an up and coming catcher his trade value is significantly higher than as an up and coming left fielder. What ever they do with him, it still could turn out ok. No one is going to be happy if he winds up being dealt for sure but if he is a part of a package, we will probably get a pretty good arm coming back our way.

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