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Thread: Christian Vazquez

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  1. #1
    Major Leaguer southpaw777's Avatar
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    Christian Vazquez

    The kid has already proved he has elite defense. Most ive talked to think hes an automatic out and wanted Swihart here for his bat. I am a big fan of an elite defensive catcher. Moreso than any other position on the field, i will sacrifice offense for that elite D behind the plate.
    With that said, Christian Vazquez WILL hit IMO, and will hit better than a lot of fans think. Will he do it right away? I believe he has already to a certain extent since most thought 220 would be about it...I believe he could be a 280+ hitter in MLB. Line drive gap to gap power. May run into 5-10 hr in a good year... Around a 700 OPS just because the SLG wont be really high.
    Since being told in AA to start concentrating on his offense more, Vaz has shown a solid approach at the plate. His K rate went down and his bb rate went up. He was starting to make more solid contact and seeing more pitches. When being promoted to another level in the minors his BA was always around 275-280.
    IMHO The Sox made the right choice when Vaz proved to be healthy. I know some were gushing over swihart, but I didnt like what I saw behind the plate at this point from him. He will certainly improve, but Im betting he will be involved in a trade this summer or winter for another starter...
    Vazquez is the man here for the next decade...and the skeptics, IMO, will see over the next few years just how good of an all around ballplayer Vaz is going to be...

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    Deity Slasher9's Avatar
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    if he hits .280 and 10+ HR's a season he will go down as one of the greatest C of all time IMO......
    he is young enough so he obviously has not peaked offensively yet. those numbers are within reach. Last year i was definitely on the "swihart is our man going forward" bus but it was easy to dismiss Vaz while he was recovering from TJ.....put me in as a "believer" now. Swihart is gone in july.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher9 View Post
    if he hits .280 and 10+ HR's a season he will go down as one of the greatest C of all time IMO......
    he is young enough so he obviously has not peaked offensively yet. those numbers are within reach. Last year i was definitely on the "swihart is our man going forward" bus but it was easy to dismiss Vaz while he was recovering from TJ.....put me in as a "believer" now. Swihart is gone in july.......
    Swihart was heroic IMO for what he did last season. He was thrown into the brink all too early and did better than I thought. That in no way superceded Vaz, who was down for the count. I was twisted over what would happen this season, but now that Swihart is playing in LF and doing it with surprising ease I am glad that both are in the game nearly daily. Bravo, DD, for making the moves to get this done!

    I am glad Vaz is doing so well. I love seeing him behind the plate and am not afraid when he comes up to the plate.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Slasher9 View Post
    if he hits .280 and 10+ HR's a season he will go down as one of the greatest C of all time IMO......
    he is young enough so he obviously has not peaked offensively yet. those numbers are within reach. Last year i was definitely on the "swihart is our man going forward" bus but it was easy to dismiss Vaz while he was recovering from TJ.....put me in as a "believer" now. Swihart is gone in july.......
    LMAO,,you sox fans are delusional..one of the best all time. he couldn't hit his way out of a wet paper bag,,,that is a necessary ingredient to be called one of the greatest all time. there are plenty of great defensive catchers in the league.

  5. #5
    TalkSox Ascended Master mvp 78's Avatar
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    Even if he hits to his current career numbers 240/310/370, he's worth keeping in the lineup. The only concern would be if he dips to lower than 220/280/350. The rest of the lineup can carry his meager bat due to his outstanding glove.

    I like Swihart, but it looked like he didn't have the confidence he needed behind the plate. I hope he figures it out, but it's Vazquez's position to lose now.
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    ( I won't say the "C word.")

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Even if he hits to his current career numbers 240/310/370, he's worth keeping in the lineup. The only concern would be if he dips to lower than 220/280/350. The rest of the lineup can carry his meager bat due to his outstanding glove.

    I like Swihart, but it looked like he didn't have the confidence he needed behind the plate. I hope he figures it out, but it's Vazquez's position to lose now.
    Agreed. If he can keep the OPS above .650 I'm happy.

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    The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.
    I'd rather see Swihart playing every day in Pawtucket than being the backup catcher in Boston. Agree on the move to left field, though, as I'm not sure his bat is or will be good enough to make a positional move worth it and I'd rather see him focusing on becoming a top-flight catcher.

    I'm thinking he goes in a trade for a pitcher this summer regardless, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flap View Post
    I'd rather see Swihart playing every day in Pawtucket than being the backup catcher in Boston. Agree on the move to left field, though, as I'm not sure his bat is or will be good enough to make a positional move worth it and I'd rather see him focusing on becoming a top-flight catcher.

    I'm thinking he goes in a trade for a pitcher this summer regardless, though.
    He'll never be a top flight catcher. In fact I don't thing he wass A catcher until genius in the organization decided he should be! He's been jerked around enough. He looked pretty damned good in LF (while he was in there)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bosoxmal View Post
    He'll never be a top flight catcher. In fact I don't thing he wass A catcher until genius in the organization decided he should be! He's been jerked around enough. He looked pretty damned good in LF (while he was in there)
    He became a catcher in his junior year in college.

    He was a pitcher before that.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.
    For Swihart to improve behind the plate, he needs to be playing 60-75% of the games, which of course with Vazquez, he isn't going to. Defensively, Swihart has a lot to improve on regarding containing balls in the dirt. I don't get the impression pitchers are especially trusting of him when it comes to throwing a low slider or splitter.

    Remember what Hanigan's role is on this team. The 40% he's playing is catching Wright (which physically has to be like catching 2 games) and babysitting the Kelly/Owens/O'Sullivan slot in the rotation. Not sure that's the slots you want throw Swihart into.

    As for the Globe article, I made the mistake of clicking on that one. If I remember correctly, it was an Eric Wilbur piece. When it comes to that "journalist", if you take what he says and do the opposite, you'll come out ahead almost every time.

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    Major Leaguer southpaw777's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    The issue isn't with keeping Vasquez in the lineup, its why the second catcher is Hannigan while Swihart languishes in Pawtucket. Its time to see if Swihart has what it takes to be a ML catcher. Right now Vas is playing about 60% of the games; Swihart should be playing the other 40%, at least. Management is screwing around with putting him in the outfield. This can only reduce his value as a trade chip as he can't hit or field that position well enough to make it there. There was a long article a while ago in the Globe saying the same thing: dump Hannigan (and I love the guy) and give Swihart a chance.
    What do you mean its time to see if he has what it takes? He was here all last year and for the start of this year and it was painfully obvious he has a lot of work to do defensively as well as learning to call games, work with pitchers and frame pitches. Hes hardly "languishing" in AAA...Hes learning his position where he should, In the minors. I like Hanny better as a BU anyway. He can handle wright better and is a better defender. No need to have Swi "languish" in Boston for 60-70% of the time on the bench when he can play almost every game in AAA.
    My guess is he is trade bait this year anyway. Im sure there will be no shortage of teams interested in him. I like the kid and understand he came up last year out of necessity, but most everyone knows he wasnt done with his development yet. Hes still young for a catcher. Especially one that only just started catching full time once he turned pro.
    Last edited by southpaw777; 05-19-2016 at 02:51 PM.

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    Deity Slasher9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw777 View Post
    What do you mean its time to see if he has what it takes? He was here all last year and for the start of this year and it was painfully obvious he has a lot of work to do defensively as well as learning to call games, work with pitchers and frame pitches. Hes hardly "languishing" in AAA?..Hes learning his position where he should, In the minors. I like Hanny better as a BU anyway. He can handle wright better and is a better defender. No need to have Swi "languish" in Boston for 60-70% of the time on the bench when he can play almost every game in AAA.
    My guess is he is trade bait this year anyway. Im sure there will be no shortage of teams interested in him. I like the kid and understand he came up last year out of necessity, but most everyone knows he wasnt done with his development yet. Hes still young for a catcher. Especially one that just started catching full time once he turned pro.
    Yup. Varitek was in AA ball at his age.
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    Quote Originally Posted by southpaw777 View Post
    What do you mean its time to see if he has what it takes? He was here all last year and for the start of this year and it was painfully obvious he has a lot of work to do defensively as well as learning to call games, work with pitchers and frame pitches. Hes hardly "languishing" in AAA...Hes learning his position where he should, In the minors. I like Hanny better as a BU anyway. He can handle wright better and is a better defender. No need to have Swi "languish" in Boston for 60-70% of the time on the bench when he can play almost every game in AAA.
    My guess is he is trade bait this year anyway. Im sure there will be no shortage of teams interested in him. I like the kid and understand he came up last year out of necessity, but most everyone knows he wasnt done with his development yet. Hes still young for a catcher. Especially one that only just started catching full time once he turned pro.
    Apologies for the long post here....this is the article that convinced me that Swihart's time has come. First, some excerpts, then a link to the full article:

    "This brings us back to Blake Swihart. Swihart was a more touted prospect than Bradley. Whereas Bradley was a consensus top-50 prospect in his final minor league season, Swihart was a consensus top-20 prospect. And after being rushed to the majors last season, Swihart adjusted well: In the second half, he was one of the best-hitting catchers in the American League.

    This season, he posted a .391 on-base percentage in the six games he played. He was the Opening Day starter, and he reached base safely in all six games he played. But he made a couple of defensive mistakes, and was sent to the minors to work on them. There are many problems with this.

    The first, as I’ve said, six games are not nearly enough to evaluate a player. Second, the team has started letting him play left field. Third, the catchers playing in his stead – Christian Vazquez and Ryan Hanigan – can’t hit.

    The first and second points are related, and again show Farrell’s itchy trigger finger. I’m reminded of players like Gary Sheffield, Melvin Upton Jr., Troy Tulowitzki and Xander Bogaerts. When they came up, all were plagued by calls to move to different defensive positions. All four were given chances to prove they belong at their original positions. Sheffield was allowed to make 15 errors at shortstop and 88 at third base before being moved full-time to the outfield. Upton made 34 errors at various infield positions before he was moved to the outfield. Both were given multiple seasons in the infield before moving to the outfield. Tulowitzki and Bogaerts both proved their doubters wrong and learned to play fantastic defense at shortstop, because they were given the opportunity to succeed or fail on their own."

    "Swihart hasn’t been given enough playing time to succeed or fail on his own. The shift to left field, robs him of realizing his full potential as a catcher, and also his trade value at that position. The only way Swihart plays in left field regularly is if an infielder gets hurt and Brock Holt moves back to the infield. Otherwise, Holt is going to be playing left field, and now that he’s an All-Star, Farrell isn’t going to bench Holt for Swihart. Swihart’s only path to normal playing time in Boston is behind the plate, except now they’ve cleared him out in favor of Vazquez and Hanigan. Which might be OK if Vazquez and Hanigan could hit.

    The problem is that the things that Vazquez does best – his defensive abilities – are not as important as they’ve been made out to be. This winter at FanGraphs, Jeff Sullivan showed how quickly any advantages from pitch framing are eroding. This is backed up by how little teams value defense-first catchers. All-time pitch framing king Jose Molina never made more than $2.75 million a season. Vazquez is good at pitch framing, but he needs to excel at something else.

    The most obvious thing to excel at is hitting, and he just plain isn’t there. For the season, he is hitting .241/.290/.379, which equates to a 75 wRC+. What that means is that he’s hit 25 percent worse than the average hitter. And as we discussed, he’s been one of the worst-hitting Red Sox catchers in the Henry/Werner era. Ryan Hanigan, meanwhile, has been much worse – .143/.234/.190, for a 14 wRC+, or 86 percent worse than the average hitter. Among the 45 catchers with at least 40 plate appearances, Hanigan’s wRC+ ranks 41st. This isn’t new. In the National League, Hanigan hit .262/.359/.343 – not great, but acceptable. Since coming to the AL in 2014 though, he’s hit .222/.318/.313, which isn’t acceptable, even for a catcher. To say the Red Sox need Swihart’s bat is a dramatic understatement. The team is scoring plenty of runs at the moment, but that won’t last forever, and there is little reason to forfeit one spot in the lineup.

    Farrell has made a habit out of shunting young players to the side before they’ve had a chance to prove that they do or don’t belong. He marginalized Jackie Bradley Jr. after his slow start in 2013, and he pushed Xander Bogaerts off of his natural position in 2014 so that he could play the abysmal Stephen Drew. Now he is doing the same thing to Blake Swihart, in seeming deference to keeping Ryan Hanigan on the roster and Christian Vazquez as the starter. Hanigan might be a great presence on the team, but he can be just as great of a presence if he retires and becomes a coach. It’s time for the Red Sox to dump Hanigan and stop pretending Blake Swihart is a left fielder, and let Swihart prove conclusively that either he can or cannot be a major league catcher."


    Here is the link to the full article: http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-...-blake-swihart

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    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FredLynn View Post
    Farrell has made a habit out of shunting young players to the side before they’ve had a chance to prove that they do or don’t belong. He marginalized Jackie Bradley Jr. after his slow start in 2013, and he pushed Xander Bogaerts off of his natural position in 2014 so that he could play the abysmal Stephen Drew. Now he is doing the same thing to Blake Swihart, in seeming deference to keeping Ryan Hanigan on the roster and Christian Vazquez as the starter. Hanigan might be a great presence on the team, but he can be just as great of a presence if he retires and becomes a coach. It’s time for the Red Sox to dump Hanigan and stop pretending Blake Swihart is a left fielder, and let Swihart prove conclusively that either he can or cannot be a major league catcher."[/I][/B]

    Here is the link to the full article: http://www.boston.com/sports/boston-...-blake-swihart
    Wow, this article is quite a hatchet job. Drew being signed and Bogaerts being moved to third in 2014 coincided with Middlebrooks getting injured.

    A lot of assumptions about Farrell being the one making decisions like promoting Vazquez or trying Swihart in left.

    And where is the mention of Shaw starting over Panda or how well the young guys are doing this year?

    (Note to Fred - I realize the reason you posted this was only because of Swihart.)

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