The Benintendi Thread

[moonslav59]

Posters keep complaining about our OF depth.....question

 

what major league team has better 4 outfielders?

 

for negative nannies, do you go to 6 deep, in an emergency don't you think we'll either acquire an OF or move Swihart there?

 

If you are talking about the farm system then I agree......also there are many here that thought Holt could start in LF.

 

4 deep plus Holt and Swihart in an emergency.

 

We're deep enough, but it does seem strange that there is nobody at AAA or AA that looks promising. Lake is probably all we might ever need beyond the 6.

[moonslav59]

Pardon this Seattle fan who can't stop comparing Red Sox and Mariner players.

 

FanGraphs Depth Charts projects 2017 WAR of 1.6 in 560 plate appearances for rookie Andrew Benintendi and 1.7 in 525 plate appearances for rookie Seattle outfielder Mitch Haniger.

 

Steamer projects 2017 WAR of 1.4 in 518 plate appearances for Benintendi and 1.4 in 440 plate appearances for Haniger.

 

ZiPS projects 2017 WAR of 2.2 in 535 plate appearances for Benintendi and 1.9 in 517 plate appearances for Haniger.

 

Steamer600, which assumes 600 plate appearances for each hitter, projects 2017 WAR of 1.6 for Benintendi and 1.9 for Haniger.

 

It should be interesting to see how each rookie develops.

 

I'd bet on Beni, if they have equal PAs.

[harmony]

And how do the other outfielders compare for both teams?

That should be an easy question for most posters to research.

 

FanGraphs Depth Charts project a combined 2017 outfield WAR of 11.1 for the Red Sox and 5.9 for the Seattle Mariners.

 

FanGraphs Depth Charts project a combined 2017 infield/catcher WAR of 13.7 for the Red Sox and 14.1 for the Seattle Mariners.

 

FanGraphs Depth Charts project a 2017 designated hitter WAR of 1.4 for the Red Sox and 2.0 for the Seattle Mariners.

 

Overall, FanGraphs Depth Charts project a 2017 WAR of 46.8 for the Red Sox and 39.5 for the Seattle Mariners.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=3

 

I would note that FanGraphs Depth Charts project a combined 2017 WAR of 11.7 for Robinson Cano, Nelson Cruz, Kyle Seager and Jean Segura, who last year combined for 20.7 fWAR. Regression is likely but the degree of regression is a topic for debate.

[moonslav59]

I would note that FanGraphs Depth Charts project a combined 2017 WAR of 11.7 for Robinson Cano, Nelson Cruz, Kyle Seager and Jean Segura, who last year combined for 20.7 fWAR. Regression is likely but the degree of regression is a topic for debate.

 

I would note that they project a 16.4 WAR from Betts, Pedey, JBJ & Bogey combined, when they put up a 22.5 WAR last year. All but Pedey are on the rise curve to prime.

 

 

[Nick]

Bottom line is if our bullpen is up to the task, we will be very good. Our starting pitching will be good, providing a top 5 quality starts. Our defense will be improved and further limit runs given up. Offense will score enough runs despite losing Ortiz.

[moonslav59]

Bottom line is if our bullpen is up to the task, we will be very good. Our starting pitching will be good, providing a top 5 quality starts. Our defense will be improved and further limit runs given up. Offense will score enough runs despite losing Ortiz.

 

Our pen should be no worse than average. It could be top 10, especially if Smith can contribute meaningful innings or others step it up. Hopefully, there will be less meaningful innings needed with our pen this year.

 

[Emp9]

Pardon this Seattle fan who can't stop comparing Red Sox and Mariner players.

 

FanGraphs Depth Charts projects 2017 WAR of 1.6 in 560 plate appearances for rookie Andrew Benintendi and 1.7 in 525 plate appearances for rookie Seattle outfielder Mitch Haniger.

 

Steamer projects 2017 WAR of 1.4 in 518 plate appearances for Benintendi and 1.4 in 440 plate appearances for Haniger.

 

ZiPS projects 2017 WAR of 2.2 in 535 plate appearances for Benintendi and 1.9 in 517 plate appearances for Haniger.

 

Steamer600, which assumes 600 plate appearances for each hitter, projects 2017 WAR of 1.6 for Benintendi and 1.9 for Haniger.

 

It should be interesting to see how each rookie develops.

 

I guess Beni could struggle in his first full year of the majors. Not sure it's a great comparison, Haniger vs Benintendi. Haniger is 4 years older w/ 3 more seasons of minor league ball under his belt ( his stats look promising though ). Beni has already been much more accomplished wasting zero time in the minors after winning the "Heisman equivalent of college baseball" and being ranked within the top 50 of the top 100. With that said, Haniger looks like a very nice pick-up and has a lot more pro ball experience ( that alone could payoff big time ) and was a 1st Rd pick as well. Just trying to point out the different paths these two have taken to be in the same place. It'll be fun to keep track of these two, you have me intrigued.

 

Here's that Segura/Walker trade write-up from fangraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mariners-and-dbacks-exchange-upside-and-downside/

[harmony]

I guess Beni could struggle in his first full year of the majors. Not sure it's a great comparison, Haniger vs Benintendi. Haniger is 4 years older w/ 3 more seasons of minor league ball under his belt ( his stats look promising though ). Beni has already been much more accomplished wasting zero time in the minors after winning the "Heisman equivalent of college baseball" and being ranked within the top 50 of the top 100. With that said, Haniger looks like a very nice pick-up and has a lot more pro ball experience ( that alone could payoff big time ) and was a 1st Rd pick as well. Just trying to point out the different paths these two have taken to be in the same place. It'll be fun to keep track of these two, you have me intrigued.

 

Here's that Segura/Walker trade write-up from fangraphs: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mariners-and-dbacks-exchange-upside-and-downside/

Andrew Benintendi joins Mariner catcher Mike Zunino and Seattle outfield prospect Kyle Lewis in "winning the 'Heisman equivalent of college baseball' and being ranked within the top 50 of the top 100."

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/college/college-player-of-the-year-lewis-powers-away-from-field/#xfe4816V7Mq6A3ev.97

 

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2016?list=prospects

 

The age difference between Benintendi and Mitch Haniger is also notable in that the Red Sox will control Benintendi for his age 22-27 seasons (through his 28th birthday) while the Mariners control Haniger for his age 26-31 seasons (assuming each spends little or no more time in the minors).

 

Haniger reminds me of Jason Bay and Steven Souza at similar ages and stages of development. Haniger's production may fall somewhere in between ... or not.

 

Here is another FanGraphs piece on Haniger:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/was-the-jean-segura-trade-really-the-mitch-haniger-trade/

[moonslav59]

The age difference between Benintendi and Mitch Haniger is also notable in that the Red Sox will control Benintendi for his age 22-27 seasons (through his 28th birthday) while the Mariners control Haniger for his age 26-31 seasons (assuming each spends little or no more time in the minors).

 

26 to 31 is probably better years than 22-28 but with one less year.

 

Makes you think about the result of calling a player up at such a young age. You lose the "prime".

[harmony]

The age difference between Benintendi and Mitch Haniger is also notable in that the Red Sox will control Benintendi for his age 22-27 seasons (through his 28th birthday) while the Mariners control Haniger for his age 26-31 seasons (assuming each spends little or no more time in the minors).

 

26 to 31 is probably better years than 22-28 but with one less year.

 

Makes you think about the result of calling a player up at such a young age. You lose the "prime".

Mitch Haniger and Andrew Benintendi each remain under team control for six seasons (assuming neither spends much time in the minors). Age seasons are typically calculated on July 1 so Benintendi turns 28 on July 6 of his age 27 season and becomes a free agent at the end of that season (barring an interruption of his MLB service time).

Edited January 17, 2017 by harmony

[Eddy Ballgame]

The age difference between Benintendi and Mitch Haniger is also notable in that the Red Sox will control Benintendi for his age 22-27 seasons (through his 28th birthday) while the Mariners control Haniger for his age 26-31 seasons (assuming each spends little or no more time in the minors).

 

26 to 31 is probably better years than 22-28 but with one less year.

 

Makes you think about the result of calling a player up at such a young age. You lose the "prime".

 

http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/apparently-andrew-benintendi-has-spent-his-offseason-doing-the-rocks-hercules-workout/

 

Wow...Benintendi has definitely been working out. If link doesn't work, just go to Barstoolsports.com

[Nick]

The age difference between Benintendi and Mitch Haniger is also notable in that the Red Sox will control Benintendi for his age 22-27 seasons (through his 28th birthday) while the Mariners control Haniger for his age 26-31 seasons (assuming each spends little or no more time in the minors).

 

26 to 31 is probably better years than 22-28 but with one less year.

 

Makes you think about the result of calling a player up at such a young age. You lose the "prime".

 

But you also have a shot at having him play 15 years for Sox

[Emp9]

The age difference between Benintendi and Mitch Haniger is also notable in that the Red Sox will control Benintendi for his age 22-27 seasons (through his 28th birthday) while the Mariners control Haniger for his age 26-31 seasons (assuming each spends little or no more time in the minors).

 

26 to 31 is probably better years than 22-28 but with one less year.

 

Makes you think about the result of calling a player up at such a young age. You lose the "prime".

 

http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/apparently-andrew-benintendi-has-spent-his-offseason-doing-the-rocks-hercules-workout/

 

Wow...Benintendi has definitely been working out. If link doesn't work, just go to Barstoolsports.com

 

Lol.. Benny Biceps ... I hope he doesn't over-train.

[Eddy Ballgame]

 

Lol.. Benny Biceps ... I hope he doesn't over-train.

 

Agreed. I'm sure his trainers are stressing flexibility. I still say he has the best pure left handed swing I've seen in a young Sox player since Fred Lynn.

[Emp9]

Andrew Benintendi joins Mariner catcher Mike Zunino and Seattle outfield prospect Kyle Lewis in "winning the 'Heisman equivalent of college baseball' and being ranked within the top 50 of the top 100."

 

http://www.baseballamerica.com/college/college-player-of-the-year-lewis-powers-away-from-field/#xfe4816V7Mq6A3ev.97

 

http://m.mlb.com/prospects/2016?list=prospects

 

The age difference between Benintendi and Mitch Haniger is also notable in that the Red Sox will control Benintendi for his age 22-27 seasons (through his 28th birthday) while the Mariners control Haniger for his age 26-31 seasons (assuming each spends little or no more time in the minors).

 

Haniger reminds me of Jason Bay and Steven Souza at similar ages and stages of development. Haniger's production may fall somewhere in between ... or not.

 

Here is another FanGraphs piece on Haniger:

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/was-the-jean-segura-trade-really-the-mitch-haniger-trade/

 

Andrew Benintendi joins Mariner catcher Mike Zunino and Seattle outfield prospect Kyle Lewis in "winning the 'Heisman equivalent of college baseball' and being ranked within the top 50 of the top 100."

 

Yeah, that is impressive.

[moonslav59]

But you also have a shot at having him play 15 years for Sox

 

Yes, and I hope that happens with Beni.

[moonslav59]

Mitch Haniger and Andrew Benintendi each remain under team control for six seasons (assuming neither spends much time in the minors). Age seasons are typically calculated on July 1 so Benintendi turns 28 on July 6 of his age 27 season and becomes a free agent at the end of that season (barring an interruption of his MLB service time).

 

OK, I misread the age span as showing one less year and missed the "through his 28th birthday" part.

 

Thanks.

[mvp 78]

For those scoring at home, Beni will now be wearing #16 this year.

 

Previous 16's:

 

Johnny Lucas 1931

Gene Rye 1931

Howie Storie 1931

Johnny Lucas 1932

Jud McLaughlin 1932

Gordon McNaughton 1932

Ivy Andrews 1933

Hank Johnson 1934-35

Jack Wilson 1935

Stew Bowers 1936

Mike Meola 1936

Babe Dahlgren 1936

Dom Dallessandro 1937

Emerson Dickman 1938-41

Al Flair 1941

Tony Lupien 1942

Vic Johnson 1944

Lou Finney 1944

Jim Wilson 1945

Red Steiner 1945

Roy Partee 1946-47

Ellis Kinder 1948-55

Bob Porterfield 1956

Harry Dorish 1956

Haywood Sullivan 1957, 1959

Bill Jurges 1959-60 (MGR)

Carroll Hardy 1960-62

Dick Williams 1963-64

Jim Lonborg 1965-71

Bob Bolin 1970

Rick Miller 1972-77

Tom Burgmeier 1978-81

Bill Buckner 1984

Dave Sax 1985

Kevin Romine 1985-91

Bob Zupcic 1991

Frank Viola 1992-94

Dave Oliver 1995-96 (COACH)

Joe Kerrigan 1997-2001 (COACH, MGR)

Bob Kipper 2002 (COACH)

Lou Collier 2003

Ricky Gutierrez 2004

Edgar Renteria 2005

David Wells 2005-06

Luis Alicea 2007-08 (COACH)

George Kottaras 2009

Marco Scutaro 2010

Josh Reddick 2011

Jason Repko 2012

Will Middlebrooks 2013-14

Luis Jimenez 2015

Jeff Bianchi 2015

Deven Marrero 2015-16

Edited January 17, 2017 by mvp 78

[Kimmi]

Im sure some are, but I'm not. I do believe we will get good numbers from him but theres a book on him now. Maybe a smaller one but im sure some pitchers will look for weaknesses. I dont think he has many and I also think he has the ability to adjust quickly...all that said, I do believe we will get better overall production than we did last year.

 

It's easy to get excited and overly enthusiastic about a player like Beni. I think he will do well for the most part, and I agree that he will give us better overall LF production than we had last year.

[Kimmi]

Bottom line is if our bullpen is up to the task, we will be very good. Our starting pitching will be good, providing a top 5 quality starts. Our defense will be improved and further limit runs given up. Offense will score enough runs despite losing Ortiz.

 

I'm not feeling the concern for our bullpen that some others are. Barring injury or fluky randomness, our team will be very good. I thought we were very good before making any moves this offseason. After the moves we are only that much better.

 

Our offense should still be one of the best, if not the best, in the league, even without Ortiz.

[moonslav59]

I'm not feeling the concern for our bullpen that some others are. Barring injury or fluky randomness, our team will be very good. I thought we were very good before making any moves this offseason. After the moves we are only that much better.

 

We're better, but our pen is worse (on paper).

 

Our pen was not very good for much of last year, so it worries me, if we go down that path again and don't have Uehara and Taz to pull us up.

 

We all were left feeling good about Kelly, Kimbrel, Scott, Ross, Barnes and Hembree, but we all know they went through tough times.

 

I'm not crying chicken little here. I love our roster as is, but at this time of the year, it's hard to avoid looking for the weakest link, even if it's not really "weak" at all.

 

[Kimmi]

We're better, but our pen is worse (on paper).

 

Our pen was not very good for much of last year, so it worries me, if we go down that path again and don't have Uehara and Taz to pull us up.

 

We all were left feeling good about Kelly, Kimbrel, Scott, Ross, Barnes and Hembree, but we all know they went through tough times.

 

I'm not crying chicken little here. I love our roster as is, but at this time of the year, it's hard to avoid looking for the weakest link, even if it's not really "weak" at all.

 

 

I guess part of the reason that I'm not concerned is because of the strength of our starting rotation. As we've discussed before, the starters' ability to regularly pitch deep into games should make the pen better. Of course there will still be games when the pen has to be called on earlier than expected, but in most cases, Farrell should be able to use his relievers the way he wants to rather than being forced to use someone in a role that he didn't want to.

[moonslav59]

I guess part of the reason that I'm not concerned is because of the strength of our starting rotation. As we've discussed before, the starters' ability to regularly pitch deep into games should make the pen better. Of course there will still be games when the pen has to be called on earlier than expected, but in most cases, Farrell should be able to use his relievers the way he wants to rather than being forced to use someone in a role that he didn't want to.

 

I hear you.

 

Our starters actually went deeper than the the league average (6.0 IP to 5.7 per start) last year. Price 6.8, Price 6.6 and Wright 6.5 were the only three over the league norm, so if Wright ends up in the pen, that addition of Sale will have a minimal affect on lessening then pen's IP. We will need ERod 5.4 and Pom 5.2 to step it up to make a major impact (or Wright to start and do as well as 2016).

 

Yes, Farrell should be be able to use his relievers the way he wants, but his choices are not as good (on paper). The other concern is how we can handle an injury. When Kimbel went down, Uehara stepped it up. I like Thornburg, and hopefully Smith can get back into form quickly, but there's gotta be concern.

 

Again, I don't see our pen as weak, but there are a lot of questions and concerns to be dealt with. The good thing is, we have spending space to help, if the concerns turn into issues or problems.

.

[Dojji]

Honestly, Moonslav, our bullpen looks better to me than it did AT THE START of 2016.

 

Kimbrel is not the world's best closer, but he ought to be more than adequate, and there's something to be said for stability in the closer's role.

 

Moreover, going into 2016 we thought our setup man was Tazawa, and actually got lucky that an aging Uehara held that role together as long as he did. Going into it this year we aren't trusting to luck nearly as much, Thornberg is a very solid Plan A, and any of Barnes, Ross, or Smith could step into the role, or at least hold onto it for awhile while we sort through our options in trade. That's a hell of a lot better than a burnt-out Tazawa and a Koji held together with spit and bailing wire. Also other options such as Barnes, Ross, and Hembree, are much better-known quantities this year than they were at this time last year.

 

Going into the year we have some good power arms to look at for middle and late innings, including any or all of Barnes, Ross, Hembree, and Kelly out the gate, and Smith down the road. That's a damn good place to start assembling a 7 man pen and I'd be willing to bet at least 18 teams in baseball are jealous of our depth of options. And that's of course figuring without whatever the 6th starter does in a bullpen role.

 

Starting the year this is what we look like:

 

Kimbrel

Thornburg

Ross

Hembree

Barnes

Kelly

(probably Pomeranz)

 

If you look at the CV's on these guys, any of the 7 could deliver sub-4 relief in any given year, and many of them are good for sub-3 more often than not. Kelly's a wild card, but Kelly is going to be a work in progress and probably near the bottom of the depth chart in the pen anyway. We HOPE for good things from Kelly, but we are not actually in a situation where we have to DEPEND on good things from Kelly -- which from the standpoint of an experiment like this is exactly where you want to be.

 

Now that said I fully expect the team to need to add to the pen from time to time. Injuries happen, roles shift around, underperformance is a thing that can affect anyone at any time. But guess what? We can add to the pen without spending assets, because waiting in the wings to finish his recovery from elbow surgery is Carson Smith, and even better, we don't have to throw him right into regular bullpen duty if we feel he isn't ready, because we ought to have 7 options ahead of him in theory, all of which are good enough that even if they struggle at first they're worth working with rather than making a panic move.

 

Are there a few bullpens that are better at the top than ours is? Oh yes. Closer is one of the closest things we have to a weakness in the pen on paper, since Kimbrel had a down year. Is there a bullpen I'd take over Boston's 1-7? Maaaaaaaybe Cleveland, and that's mostly because of Miller. Maybe the Cubs, although not so much post-Chapman. Not too many others

 

If our bullpen is the closest thing we have to a genuine concern or weakness, this is going to be one hell of a baseball season.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Dojji

[moonslav59]

Honestly, Moonslav, our bullpen looks better to me than it did AT THE START of 2016.

 

At the start of 2016, Carson Smith was not expected to miss the whole season. Tazawa was questionable after a decline in 2015, but he was not bad. Ross had showed consistency and Barnes promise. Layne and Noe Ramirez were no different from Abad and Hembree are now. Plus, there were less questions about Kimbrel last spring than this one.

 

Feelings at the start of the season....

2016 >=

Kimbrel > Kimbrel

Uehara = Thornburg

Smith > Smith

R Ross

Tazawa > Hembree

Barnes

Layne = Abad

N Ram

 

(Now, if Pom or Wright are added to the pen, that changes things, but unless we add a Ziegler, like we did last year, I like last year's pen better (on paper) at the start of the year and more so, after we added Ziegler.

 

 

Kimbrel is not the world's best closer, but he ought to be more than adequate, and there's something to be said for stability in the closer's role.

 

Felt better about Kimbrel last March than I do now.

 

 

Moreover, going into 2016 we thought our setup man was Tazawa, and actually got lucky that an aging Uehara held that role together as long as he did. Going into it this year we aren't trusting to luck nearly as much, Thornberg is a very solid Plan A, and any of Barnes, Ross, or Smith could step into the role, or at least hold onto it for awhile while we sort through our options in trade. That's a hell of a lot better than a burnt-out Tazawa and a Koji held together with spit and bailing wire. Also other options such as Barnes, Ross, and Hembree, are much better-known quantities this year than they were at this time last year.

 

Thornburg and Smith both have exactly one very good season under their belts. Smith may take 1-2 months to return. I think you are down playing the expectations we had for Uehara and Taz last year.

 

 

Going into the year we have some good power arms to look at for middle and late innings, including any or all of Barnes, Ross, Hembree, and Kelly out the gate, and Smith down the road. That's a damn good place to start assembling a 7 man pen and I'd be willing to bet at least 18 teams in baseball are jealous of our depth of options. And that's of course figuring without whatever the 6th starter does in a bullpen role.

 

I've said I do NOT think our pen is weak. I just said I think it is our weakest area (next to maybe 3B). I expected 2 solid acquisitions after losing 3 key relievers. We got 1 and hopes for Smith to be 2.

 

 

Starting the year this is what we look like:

 

Kimbrel

Thornburg

Ross

Hembree

Barnes

Kelly

(probably Pomeranz)

 

If you look at the CV's on these guys, any of the 7 could deliver sub-4 relief in any given year, and many of them are good for sub-3 more often than not. Kelly's a wild card, but Kelly is going to be a work in progress and probably near the bottom of the depth chart in the pen anyway. We HOPE for good things from Kelly, but we are not actually in a situation where we have to DEPEND on good things from Kelly -- which from the standpoint of an experiment like this is exactly where you want to be.

 

We have a lot of promise, no doubt, but we are short on RP'ers who have done well in something as simple as 2 of the last 3 years in the pen: Kimbrel & Ross are it.

 

 

Now that said I fully expect the team to need to add to the pen from time to time. Injuries happen, roles shift around, underperformance is a thing that can affect anyone at any time. But guess what? We can add to the pen without spending assets, because waiting in the wings to finish his recovery from elbow surgery is Carson Smith, and even better, we don't have to throw him right into regular bullpen duty if we feel he isn't ready, because we ought to have 7 options ahead of him in theory, all of which are good enough that even if they struggle at first they're worth working with rather than making a panic move.

 

I'm not suggesting a "panic move". I haven't even said we should overpay for a FA RP'er right now. I'm fine with waiting to see if we can cobble together 3-4 solid arms out of the 5-7 promising ones.

 

I'm high on Thornburg, Kelly, Barnes and Hembree, and I'm hoping Ross remains consistent, but I'll take 2016's expectations of Uehara, Ziegler and Taz over these guys.

 

 

Are there a few bullpens that are better at the top than ours is? Oh yes. Closer is one of the closest things we have to a weakness in the pen on paper, since Kimbrel had a down year. Is there a bullpen I'd take over Boston's 1-7? Maaaaaaaybe Cleveland, and that's mostly because of Miller. Maybe the Cubs, although not so much post-Chapman. Not too many others

 

If our bullpen is the closest thing we have to a genuine concern or weakness, this is going to be one hell of a baseball season.

 

I agree, and I've said this in similar words. Our weakest link is not really "weak".

 

I look at how 2016's season ended with our pen, and it was all about Kimbrel, Uehara, Ziegler, Taz, Kelly and Ross. Three of these guys are gone, and Kelly's great sample size in September was tiny. Sure, we have plenty of p[promise. I'm looking forward to seeing how it all shakes out. We also have Scott and others in the minors that could solve any problem areas, if they arise, so the pen is not a weak are right now, but I'll bet we start looking for the next Ziegler before the deadline.

[Dojji]

Of course we'll look for the next Ziegler, because the bullpen is always an area that can be upgraded if you don't have a major need to expand the roster in other areas. If we don't go for the next Ziegler, it's probably because another position (1B and 3B are possibilities here) is hurting and needs help more than the bullpen does.

[moonslav59]

Of course we'll look for the next Ziegler, because the bullpen is always an area that can be upgraded if you don't have a major need to expand the roster in other areas. If we don't go for the next Ziegler, it's probably because another position (1B and 3B are possibilities here) is hurting and needs help more than the bullpen does.

 

True enough, and with close to $9M available, we might be able to fill two needs at the deadline. The longer we wait to make a trade, the lower the prorated cost of the incoming contract.

[southpaw777]

We're better, but our pen is worse (on paper).

 

Our pen was not very good for much of last year, so it worries me, if we go down that path again and don't have Uehara and Taz to pull us up.

 

We all were left feeling good about Kelly, Kimbrel, Scott, Ross, Barnes and Hembree, but we all know they went through tough times.

 

I'm not crying chicken little here. I love our roster as is, but at this time of the year, it's hard to avoid looking for the weakest link, even if it's not really "weak" at all.

 

 

Lot of unknowns in our pen...will Kimbrel be better after year one in Boston? Not that he was bad. Thornburgs first year. Will he adapt well? How will Smith do upon return from TJS? Will Barnes and Kelly take a step forward and be more consistent? These are all guys is see as our primary 7-9 innings. Ross, Hembree, Abad are all 6th or earlier unless needed. Maybe Hembree can take a step forward and be a true reliable late inning guy as well...

My feeling is our pen will become a strength for us this year.

[moonslav59]

Lot of unknowns in our pen...will Kimbrel be better after year one in Boston? Not that he was bad. Thornburgs first year. Will he adapt well? How will Smith do upon return from TJS? Will Barnes and Kelly take a step forward and be more consistent? These are all guys is see as our primary 7-9 innings. Ross, Hembree, Abad are all 6th or earlier unless needed. Maybe Hembree can take a step forward and be a true reliable late inning guy as well...

My feeling is our pen will become a strength for us this year.

 

There is a lot of promise and reason to be optimistic. The good think is that we have more promising RP'ers than 25 man roster spots, so we don't need every promise to ring true- just 3-4 on top of Kimbrel, Thornburg and Smith staying productive.

 

My point is that on paper our pen looks weaker than the one that began 2016 that expected Carson Smith to do well and the pen that ended 2016 with a healthy Uehara & Tazawa and a guy like Ziegler added to it. That's all I'm saying.

 

Again, our pen is not weak, but I do see it as our weakest spot right now.

 

I'm very excited about this year's team, and if this pen is our weakest link, then that's actually a good thing when looking at the big picture.

[southpaw777]

The pen has to prove itself...for me anyway.

I like what we have on paper. Barnes and Kelly are still question marks to me, as is Thornburg.

I think they will work out their roles and the pen will become a strength, but for now there are only a lot of questions besides Kimbrel.