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Thread: A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

  1. #3346
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    Sorry, not buying that Bell. There's still nothing anyone can do about specific moves, so why worry about them?
    With specific moves it's generally not worrying, it's complaining about results that are right there in front of you.

    You can't really say anyone 'worries' about the Pablo signing any more.

  2. #3347
    Quote Originally Posted by Fisk View Post
    Potential problems abound for all organizations when you look 4 or 5 years out. We should be happy and enjoy the sox for the next few years it could be a fun run.
    I really do agree with the way you see this. i know more about what we look like years from now than I ever did before. Quite honestly it used to be a couple of years at a time at best for me. I used to have other things to occupy my time - family and job for the most part. Being retired gives me more time to worry about our Red Sox 5 years from now. Not sure that is a good thing for me. When I was teaching and coaching there is virtually no way I would have been able to participate on a forum board. Either I was too busy or just not that bright. I like this and have learned a lot but the information age still has it s drawbacks. Keep pn keepin on!

  3. #3348
    Quote Originally Posted by cp176 View Post
    I really do agree with the way you see this. i know more about what we look like years from now than I ever did before. Quite honestly it used to be a couple of years at a time at best for me. I used to have other things to occupy my time - family and job for the most part. Being retired gives me more time to worry about our Red Sox 5 years from now. Not sure that is a good thing for me. When I was teaching and coaching there is virtually no way I would have been able to participate on a forum board. Either I was too busy or just not that bright. I like this and have learned a lot but the information age still has it s drawbacks. Keep pn keepin on!
    Lol I worry too, even at work

  4. #3349
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Let me put it this way: if I say I'm not concerned about our future, it's not because I'm not aware of the potential problems, it's because I see no point in being concerned about it. It's just my position.
    Fair enough, but I bet you aren't for trading Groome, Swihart, Travis, Owens and Rauses for Quintana to totally go for the here and now with a major blow to "the future".

  5. #3350
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Fair enough, but I bet you aren't for trading Groome, Swihart, Travis, Owens and Rauses for Quintana to totally go for the here and now with a major blow to "the future".
    That would be overkill and kill any flexibility we have.

  6. #3351
    Cuban Left-Hander Osvaldo Hernandez Declared Free Agent
    By Mark Polishuk | February 12, 2017 at 5:54pm CDT

    Cuban left-hander Osvaldo Hernandez has been declared a free agent and can now sign with any team, MLB.com’s Jesse Sanchez reports (via Twitter). Several teams are already interested in the 18-year-old southpaw, including the Astros, Braves, Mets, Padres, Rangers, Reds and Red Sox.

    Due to Hernandez’s young age, his signing is subject to international bonus pools. (As a reminder of how the international signing system has been altered by the new collective bargaining agreement, check out this refresher from Baseball America’s Ben Badler). One factor that hasn’t changed is that teams who exceeded their international spending limits in the last two July 2 classes are still serving their previously-mandated penalties, i.e. limited to spending no more than $300K on any pool-eligible player. By waiting until this July 2 to sign, Hernandez could open his market up to teams like the Diamondbacks, Blue Jays, Angels, Rays, Yankees and Red Sox, as those six clubs would no longer be held to the $300K limit. Boston, it should be noted, can’t sign Hernandez at all until July 2 since the Sox were banned from signing any pool-eligible players whatsoever during this signing class.

    With significant interest in Hernandez’s services already, however, the young southpaw may not feel the need to wait. Also, since the old CBA’s rules are still in effect until the 2017-18 international signing period begins, Hernandez probably stands a better chance of scoring a richer contract now than he will when the stricter pool rules are instituted after July 2. Of the teams connected to Hernandez already, the Braves, Astros, Reds and Padres have already surpassed their bonus pools for the 2016-17 international signing period, so they would be paying a 100 percent tax on Hernandez’s signing bonus if a deal was reached.

    Hernandez didn’t appear on any of the top prospects lists from Baseball America, Fangraphs or MLB.com for the current international signing period, though BA’s list didn’t include players who weren’t already eligible to sign. The 18-year-old does already possess a fastball clocked between 92-94mph, according to Sanchez.

  7. #3352
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    With specific moves it's generally not worrying, it's complaining about results that are right there in front of you.

    You can't really say anyone 'worries' about the Pablo signing any more.
    Actually, I think plenty of people still 'worry' about the Pablo signing.

    Beyond that, I'm still not buying that there is any difference between the cases, other than who's doing the 'worrying'. I think you're arguing semantics with me. In either case, there is nothing we can do about it, which was the point you were making. I don't see the difference between being concerned about the future, which we can do nothing about, or complaining about current contracts, which we can do nothing about.

  8. #3353
    From time to tome, I find myself wondering what we could be doing with Pablo's money right now. Maybe we're arguing semantics, but I suppose it could be called "worrying" about the signing...still

    I will say, I'm not suffering over it.


  9. #3354
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    From time to tome, I find myself wondering what we could be doing with Pablo's money right now. Maybe we're arguing semantics, but I suppose it could be called "worrying" about the signing...still

    I will say, I'm not suffering over it.


    even better for us - I don't think that John Henry is worrying about it too much either.

  10. #3355
    The only reason why Pablo is on your team is because of the money he is making. That being said, if he is actually motivated and has lost a bunch of weight, he might return to being good. I think the days of .300+ BA are probably over, but if he could hit .275 with 15HR, he could be a good enough player to help you win some ballgames. That being said, he is coming off a significant injury, so let's see who the new Pablo actually is
    How many more years left in ARod's contract?

  11. #3356
    Quote Originally Posted by Kimmi View Post
    Actually, I think plenty of people still 'worry' about the Pablo signing.

    Beyond that, I'm still not buying that there is any difference between the cases, other than who's doing the 'worrying'. I think you're arguing semantics with me. In either case, there is nothing we can do about it, which was the point you were making. I don't see the difference between being concerned about the future, which we can do nothing about, or complaining about current contracts, which we can do nothing about.
    Kimmi, my post where I tried to explain my philosophy was in response to this statement by moon:

    I could be wrong, but I have gotten a very distinct impression that some posters do not feel much concern about the difficulties that are ahead of us.

    I assumed that I was one of the people he was talking about and I wanted to clarify my position. I'm not unaware of the potential problems ahead, and if I seem unconcerned it's only because I'm choosing to accept that it's an organizational direction and I can't do much but accept it. I get where you and moon are coming from 100%. Like I say I was basically just trying to state my own position. You're probably right that the 'worrying' vs. 'complaining' distinction is largely semantics.

  12. #3357
    Quote Originally Posted by jacksonianmarch View Post
    The only reason why Pablo is on your team is because of the money he is making. That being said, if he is actually motivated and has lost a bunch of weight, he might return to being good. I think the days of .300+ BA are probably over, but if he could hit .275 with 15HR, he could be a good enough player to help you win some ballgames. That being said, he is coming off a significant injury, so let's see who the new Pablo actually is
    I think he'd still be on the team at $5M a year. It's not like we have a roster crunch at 25 or 40, and our number of other ML starter quality 3Bmen in the system is virtually nill.

    He might have been traded, if he was making $5M, but I don't think he'd have been DFA'd. (Not a certainty though)

  13. #3358
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Kimmi, my post where I tried to explain my philosophy was in response to this statement by moon:

    I could be wrong, but I have gotten a very distinct impression that some posters do not feel much concern about the difficulties that are ahead of us.

    I assumed that I was one of the people he was talking about and I wanted to clarify my position. I'm not unaware of the potential problems ahead, and if I seem unconcerned it's only because I'm choosing to accept that it's an organizational direction and I can't do much but accept it. I get where you and moon are coming from 100%. Like I say I was basically just trying to state my own position. You're probably right that the 'worrying' vs. 'complaining' distinction is largely semantics.
    I didn't mean you. You have been very clear about knowing it's not going to be easy down the road.

    If you go back and look at some of the posts made after the Sale trade, there were many responses that seemed to or blatantly said there was nothing to worry about concerning our long term future. Statements such as, "We will rebuild the farm by then," or "We can spend more," were thrown about. When questioned for further details on how we could do that, some of us were accused of whining, complaining, not wanting to trade any prospects, and more recently, "suffering". It was implied by some that we could not enjoy the present, because we had concerns about the future.

    I'm not trying to convince everyone to worry or be concerned. Some people just aren't wired that way, or they have other reasons for not being or voicing their concerns. I'm fine with that. I welcome a variety of opinions. My responses and statements have largely been to try and detail just how hard it is going to be to rebuild the farm under the new system for those who care to know. My position is one of trying to maintain a balance between the now and the later, and I think we went a little too far to one end of the spectrum. I'm not preaching doomsday, and I'm not calling for DD;'s head or even contemplating the idea. I love the team we have. The Sale trade is like a dream come true for me. It's the type of trade I have advocated for dozens of years. I'm not a worry wart, but I do have the future in mind often in my life and in my view on the Sox. My life goal was to retire at 45, so you can see where my mind is at, in general. I've had a lot of fun in my life that cost a lot of money, like 3 trips to Europe (one for 3 months), 3 trips to Brazil (2 months total), and many other shorter excursions, so I do believe in enjoying the here and now, too.

    It's not easy constructing a team that looks to be very highly competitive for 3-5 years. I think Ben's contribution has been a little short-changed and assumptions about what he might have done these last 2 years may be baseless. It's hard to find much wrong with what has been done, but I happen to think we went just a little too far with trading away prospects. I'd prefer we still had Espi, but I'm far from suffering over the fact that he's gone.


  14. #3359
    Quote Originally Posted by cp176 View Post
    even better for us - I don't think that John Henry is worrying about it too much either.
    I'm not so sure; when he looks at the Pablo line on his expense report, he might cringe a little. (Also the Castillo line.)

  15. #3360
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I'm not so sure; when he looks at the Pablo line on his expense report, he might cringe a little. (Also the Castillo line.)
    No doubt he does cringe. Fortunately he can be consoled by the fact that his franchise has made him a ton of money in spite of such losses. And fortunately for us he's still willing to spend right up to the tax threshold even with Castillo and Craig on top of that.

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