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Thread: A Realistic View at 2017 Part I

  1. #3466
    More on Pablo, including a video...

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/on...f-this-winter/


  2. #3467
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Most good (not great) pitchers have good and bad streaks. The either "have it" or "they don't". I really never viewed Wake as being any more inconsistent than other 3-4-5 starters in MLB at that time.

    He was basically a one pitch pitcher, so maybe it's more noticeable when that pitch is not working. He had no other pitch to fall back on like others did which I think helped stoke the image of him being up and down more than others. If you actually look at his numbers and game logs, he was pretty consistent from year to year and withing each season- no more- no less than other back end starters in MLB.

    Remember, he also pitched in a hitter's park, in the steroid era and on teams that sometimes lacked in plus defense. At times, he had catchers who had no clue as to how to catch a knuckler. I guess one could blame the pitcher for that, but I never did. If a pitcher can throw a pitch that is hard to catch, imagine how hard it must have been to hit!

    Part of being consistent is being healthy and giving innings. He went 14 straight seasons and 16 out of his 17 seasons with Boston with 140+ IP! He had 13 seasons with 154+ IP and 9 with 180+ IP. His ERA was between 4.13 and 5.14 in 14 of 17 seasons with the Sox (1 at 2.95, 1 at 5.48 and 1 at 5.34). His ERA- was over 103 just once in his first 15 seasons with Boston! It was under 98 ten out of his first 15 seasons. His career WHIP was rather high (1.35), but he was pretty consistent there too by coming within 0.12 of his career norm in 12 of his 17 seasons with us. (3 of the other 5 seasons he was below by more than 0.12.)

    Except for his last season here, in sesasons with 19 or more starts, his QS% was always between 47% and 73%.
    All 17 Sox seasons:
    3 seasons over 67% QS's
    6 seasons from 52% to 60%
    5 seasons from 47 to 48%
    3 seasons from 29 to 35%% (all when split between starting and relieving)

    I think if we compare Wake to the top 3 & 4 starters in MLB at that time, he'll look just as consistent.


    Seriously why did you post all of this? Are you trying to plant some kind of thought that I might not have liked Wakefied? is someone arguing with you here about Wake's value? I think that Wake could look like an ace when he was on and less than a 5 when he was not. In your world maybe watching a knuckleball pitcher is no different that watching anyone pitch. Not in mine. I'm not talking about his accumulated stats. I liked Wake and appreciate what he gave to the Red Spx but you aren't going to convince me that watching him when he was off wasn't excruciating. Much more so when you consider how good he looked when he was on.

  3. #3468
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    So can just about every other fair to mediocre pitcher in MLB.
    When Wake was on, he was at least one pant load better than any mediocre pitcher in mlb.

  4. #3469
    Quote Originally Posted by cp176 View Post
    Seriously why did you post all of this? Are you trying to plant some kind of thought that I might not have liked Wakefied? is someone arguing with you here about Wake's value? I think that Wake could look like an ace when he was on and less than a 5 when he was not. In your world maybe watching a knuckleball pitcher is no different that watching anyone pitch. Not in mine. I'm not talking about his accumulated stats. I liked Wake and appreciate what he gave to the Red Spx but you aren't going to convince me that watching him when he was off wasn't excruciating. Much more so when you consider how good he looked when he was on.
    Not trying to convince you of anything. I certainly cannot change how you felt in the past, and I'm not sure I'd want to, even if I could.

    I guess I'm trying to counter the feeling that he was very inconsistent or more so than other pitchers with similar overall numbers ("accumulated stats").

    To me, it's hard watching any style of Sox pitcher when they "don't have it".

    I'll certainly agree that when he was on, it was much better watching him than when he wasn't.

    It wasn't fun watching Price in his first 7 or 8 games last year.

    It was painful watching Buch the many times he was "off".

    ERod has been up and down in extremes over his short career with us.

    I could go on and on with histories of inconsistent Sox pitchers. I just don't think Wake was any different and he may have been even been more consistent than most with his type numbers.


  5. #3470
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    More on Pablo, including a video...

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/on...f-this-winter/

    Hype train! CHOO CHOO!!!!!
    Devers OPS in BOS: 1.078. Seasoning in AAA is overrated.

  6. #3471
    Quote Originally Posted by mvp 78 View Post
    Hype train! CHOO CHOO!!!!!
    Hard to see how trim he looks in the videos. He didn't look fat, but he didn't look that thin either.

  7. #3472
    Jeff Todd reports:

    Red Sox lefty Eduardo Rodriguez was cleared for his first pen session of the spring after suffering a minor knee injury in winter ball action, as Jen McCaffrey of MassLive.com reports. There was added concern given the trouble Rodriguez experienced with the same joint last year, but he was able to throw 40 pitches without incident today. Boston has some depth in the staff, with Rodriguez slated to compete with Drew Pomeranz and Steven Wright for the final two rotation jobs, though maintaining that depth will hinge in no small part upon the ability of the 24-year-old to stay healthy throughout the coming season.

    In ERod's 41 starts with the Sox, he has allowed 0-1 ERs in 18 of them!

    Also, 0-2 ERs in 25 of 41 games.

    Weird that he only has 2 games allowing exactly 4 ERs.

    He has 8 games where he allowed 5 or more runs.

  8. #3473
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Hard to see how trim he looks in the videos. He didn't look fat, but he didn't look that thin either.
    He'll never be thin. He just needs to show up at his normal SF weight. This is the best shape that he can get in. He just needs to keep the weight off during the season now.
    Devers OPS in BOS: 1.078. Seasoning in AAA is overrated.

  9. #3474
    I'll say it now, so I can say I told you so 5 months from now: Chris Sale is a poison in the clubhouse. He will be a detriment to this team's morale, and will hold back the team's performance in some significant way. I still think we're a playoff team, but with Chris Sale, we're certainly not a championship caliber team.
    University of Connecticut Class of 2021

    Quote Originally Posted by Navafan29 View Post
    If our new MLB comissioner goes big government and forces all ballparks to get rid of their quirks, we should replace the center field triangle with a cave for Buchholz to live in, and he comes out of it whenever it's time for him to pitch.

  10. #3475
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I'll say it now, so I can say I told you so 5 months from now: Chris Sale is a poison in the clubhouse. He will be a detriment to this team's morale, and will hold back the team's performance in some significant way. I still think we're a playoff team, but with Chris Sale, we're certainly not a championship caliber team.
    You have any facts to base this on, from what I heard the white sox players universally respected him in the clubhouse.

  11. #3476
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Not trying to convince you of anything. I certainly cannot change how you felt in the past, and I'm not sure I'd want to, even if I could.

    I guess I'm trying to counter the feeling that he was very inconsistent or more so than other pitchers with similar overall numbers ("accumulated stats").

    To me, it's hard watching any style of Sox pitcher when they "don't have it".

    I'll certainly agree that when he was on, it was much better watching him than when he wasn't.

    It wasn't fun watching Price in his first 7 or 8 games last year.

    It was painful watching Buch the many times he was "off".

    ERod has been up and down in extremes over his short career with us.

    I could go on and on with histories of inconsistent Sox pitchers. I just don't think Wake was any different and he may have been even been more consistent than most with his type numbers.

    I was not trying to compare him to anyone else. If you don't think, based on accumulated stats, that he presented a more up and down type pitcher (like most knuckleballers do ) that is fine. You are trying to make a statement here and all I get is that you really liked Wake. Good - so did the rest of us.

  12. #3477
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I'll say it now, so I can say I told you so 5 months from now: Chris Sale is a poison in the clubhouse. He will be a detriment to this team's morale, and will hold back the team's performance in some significant way. I still think we're a playoff team, but with Chris Sale, we're certainly not a championship caliber team.
    So was Roger Clemens, and how many rings does he have again?
    We miss you Mike.

  13. #3478
    Quote Originally Posted by cp176 View Post
    I was not trying to compare him to anyone else. If you don't think, based on accumulated stats, that he presented a more up and down type pitcher (like most knuckleballers do ) that is fine. You are trying to make a statement here and all I get is that you really liked Wake. Good - so did the rest of us.
    I'm guessing he must be referring to a different pitcher because if you watched Wake, was never sure what you were going to get.

  14. #3479
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I'll say it now, so I can say I told you so 5 months from now: Chris Sale is a poison in the clubhouse. He will be a detriment to this team's morale, and will hold back the team's performance in some significant way. I still think we're a playoff team, but with Chris Sale, we're certainly not a championship caliber team.
    Why? Is it because he didn't want to pitch in a shirt that had a collar on it?! I wouldn't want to wear that thing, either. Those guys in the 70's were all pissed that THEY had to wear it.

    This team has too many guys who would never let one guy be a clubhouse cancer. Farrell is also not the type of guy who would tolerate that stuff. Sale's never pitched in the playoffs before. He wants to win badly. My guess is that he'll be an ideal teammate.

  15. #3480
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    I'll say it now, so I can say I told you so 5 months from now: Chris Sale is a poison in the clubhouse. He will be a detriment to this team's morale, and will hold back the team's performance in some significant way. I still think we're a playoff team, but with Chris Sale, we're certainly not a championship caliber team.
    First the disclaimer... I have ZERO first-hand information as to what has happened in any ML clubhouse. This is just the way I see things based on my observation and experience.

    Most players aren't a problem in the clubhouse as long as things are going well for them. It's when things go south that the problems start.

    Josh Beckett is a good example of that. He was a leader. As long as he and the team weree winning he was the guy you wanted on the mound. He would lead the team to wins on the days when he pitched. When things went sour for him was when he became the problem in the clubhouse.

    IMHO the dust-up with LaRouche and his son was what made Sale unhappy with the White Sox management. After that nothing the ChiSox could do would be right in Sale's eyes and that manifested itself in the throwback uniform incident. After that Sale was sick of the White Sox and they were sick of him.

    The 2016 season may be an indication that Sale is a bit of a prima donna. Being very good will do that to some players. I don't see any doubt that there's a gamble involved in signing him but he could also very well be someone who just needs a change in scenery. Moncada aside, for the money he's making that's a risk I'd be willing to take. If he turns out to be a problem in Boston he'll be very tradeable.

    At that point we have to hope that Moncada doesn't become the next Mike Trout (or Mookie Betts!)
    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

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