2017 Rotation

[a700hitter]

Kendricks stinks --- a bum.

[Jack Flap]

He'll be our 7th starter at best, and hopefully more like 8th or 9th because Owens/Johnson end up taking steps forward. Ideally he'll never see Boston, but it's good to have the insurance.

[Bellhorn04]

Kendricks stinks --- a bum.

 

I'm shocked by this post. Shocked I tell ya!

[Jack Flap]

Unless you've got a near major league-ready prospect lined up, in the I think your 7/8/9/10/etc. depth starters are pretty much going to be bums by definition. If not Kendrick, that spot would go to another journeyman bum like O'Sullivan or an organizational bum like William Cuevas. Nothing to see here, really.

[moonslav59]

I'm shocked by this post. Shocked I tell ya!

 

Elias may end up our #7.

[Spudboy]

Kendricks stinks --- a bum.

 

lol

 

I'm shocked by this post. Shocked I tell ya!

 

lol

[harmony]

Maybe not the best choice, but we need depth. I hope we have better in the works.

I would not have minded if my Mariners had signed Kyle Kendrick, a Seattle-area product, to a minor league contract to provide rotation depth.

 

Behind the current projected starting five, the Mariners have 28-year-old lefthander Ariel Miranda, who posted an ERA of 3.44 in 10 starts last year; nearly 29-year-old righthander Chris Heston, who two years ago posted an ERA of 3.95 in 31 starts, including a no-hitter; and nearly 23-year-old righthander Rob Whalen, who last year was roughed up in five MLB starts after five solid years in the minors.

[Slasher9]

Absolutely no Red Sox fans would have traded playoff rosters with the Guardians before that series, especially the starting pitcher set-up, so I find criticizing who we ended up putting out there rings sort of hollow.

 

i would agree except that i said it before the postseason even started. but whatever. you and notin are thrilled we have David Price for postseason starts. again, i am not saying you are wrong for your opinion but you two cannot resist telling me how wrong i am for thinking differently.

[Slasher9]

Aces? We faced Josh Tomlin and Trevor Bauer (who started the season in the bullpen) in two out of our three playoff games.

 

 

The Guardians used some guy named Ryan Merritt in the clincher against Toronto. Outside of Kluber, who were all these "aces"?

you can dismiss the part i said about how managers manage the pitching staff in the postseason. you can also dismiss that i said "supposed to". the fact remains...pitching in the postseason usually trumps pitching in the regular season. hitting in the postseason is usually harder than hitting in the regular season. i used the word "usually" in both sentences so please refrain from pointing out David Ortiz' 2013 World Series batting average......

[moonslav59]

i would agree except that i said it before the postseason even started. but whatever. you and notin are thrilled we have David Price for postseason starts. again, i am not saying you are wrong for your opinion but you two cannot resist telling me how wrong i am for thinking differently.

 

I know you said it before the playoffs, but be serious, would you be thrilled starting Timlin, Bauer or Merritt instead?

 

I'm not "thrilled" about Price's post season starts, and I am somewhat concerned that it may be more than just a fluke or small scattered sample size anomaly, but I'll take Price this October over Buch, Pom, Wright and ERod again, if those choices were all available.

Edited January 19, 2017 by moonslav59

[cp176]

Agreed...like I've said before, give me the most talented roster to get through the regular season with, and I'll be able to go into October with confidence every time. I know it's popular to think of the postseason as an entity all to its own, but putting as much emphasis on 3.1 innings out of 230+ last year (or Price's 66.2 career playoff innings spread out over nearly a decade) as some people do is simply silly.

 

Everyone is aware of Price's postseason stats and would like to see him pitch better...and my guess would be that no one is more keenly aware of this than him. I just don't see the need to continually harp on it in every thread, or hound him about it on social media the way some fans apparently do. (I remember reading after we acquired Sale that he doesn't have a Twitter account...probably wise on his part.)

 

I agree with everything here. You have to get to the big dance before you can win it. Price is a horse!

[moonslav59]

I agree with everything here. You have to get to the big dance before you can win it. Price is a horse!

 

I get the feeling Price is going to have an enormous season this year.

 

He should be adjusted, and with Sale being added to the rotation, I think he is going to be primed to show he is "THE ACE"!

[mvp 78]

I get the feeling Price is going to have an enormous season this year.

 

He should be adjusted, and with Sale being added to the rotation, I think he is going to be primed to show he is "THE ACE"!

 

I think he'll be better than he was last year, but I don't expect him to be anything more than a #2. Come playoffs? Who knows?

[moonslav59]

I think he'll be better than he was last year, but I don't expect him to be anything more than a #2. Come playoffs? Who knows?

 

He's had a WAR above four since 2010.

 

Usually a 4 WAR is considered an ace (or a top 30 starter in MLB).

 

Although he finished 12th in WAR last year (ahead of Lester, I might add), I can see not thinking of him as top 30.

 

He was 34th in ERA- and 30th in WHIP.

 

I think he'll be top 5 or 10 in WAR this year and top 10-15 in ERA- and WHIP.

 

As you can see, Price usually looks like a number 2 or a top 10 SP'er, in terms of ERA- over recent years:

 

ERA- rankings since 2010:

7th

37th

2nd

31st

31st

4th

34th

[mvp 78]

His WAR is helped by how much he eats innings.

[moonslav59]

His WAR is helped by how much he eats innings.

 

Deservedly so. It makes a huge difference when you get 200+ quality IP'd.

 

His career QS% is 68%.

[User Name]

For a starter, the ability to prevent runs isn't really very useful if he can't provide IP in bulk.

[moonslav59]

For a starter, the ability to prevent runs isn't really very useful if he can't provide IP in bulk.

 

True, but 4 IP 0 ER beats 7 IP and 4 ER most of the time.

[Bellhorn04]

True, but 4 IP 0 ER beats 7 IP and 4 ER most of the time.

 

4 IP 0 ER is a pretty unusual line for a starter. It suggests either the first start of the season, a spot start, a crazy pitch count or an injury.

[moonslav59]

4 IP 0 ER is a pretty unusual line for a starter. It suggests either the first start of the season, a spot start, a crazy pitch count or an injury.

 

True, maybe using this example is more realistic:

 

5.2 IP 1 ER is usually better than 7.2 IP 4 ERs.

 

[User Name]

True, maybe using this example is more realistic:

 

5.2 IP 1 ER is usually better than 7.2 IP 4 ERs.

 

 

You expose the BP's soft underbelly and force it to throw significantly more IP. Over the season, it adds up, and next thing you know, you're losing those starts because the BP can't hold a lead.

[moonslav59]

You expose the BP's soft underbelly and force it to throw significantly more IP. Over the season, it adds up, and next thing you know, you're losing those starts because the BP can't hold a lead.

 

I get it. I said it is "usually" better, when maybe saying "it is better in some ways" is more accurate.

 

You're right though, 7.2 IP vs 5.2 IP can make a big difference in the pen's efficiency.

[Kimmi]

His WAR is helped by how much he eats innings.

 

As it should be. There is great value in a starting pitcher who not only makes most of his starts, but also pitches deep in most games.

[moonslav59]

As it should be. There is great value in a starting pitcher who not only makes most of his starts, but also pitches deep in most games.

 

Damn straight!

[Dojji]

True, maybe using this example is more realistic:

 

5.2 IP 1 ER is usually better than 7.2 IP 4 ERs.

 

 

Only in a vacuum.

 

I actually 100% disagree with this statement, any average offense should be scoring 4 runs more often than not, and if your starter is going 7.2 IP on a regular basis, the bullpen shouldn't be allowing too many subsequent runs (one every few games or so with that few innings going around), so a starter that goes nearly 8 innings and allows 4 runs has put an average team in a position to win the game in each and every one of those starts.

[Kimmi]

Only in a vacuum.

 

I actually 100% disagree with this statement, any average offense should be scoring 4 runs more often than not, and if your starter is going 7.2 IP on a regular basis, the bullpen shouldn't be allowing too many subsequent runs (one every few games or so with that few innings going around), so a starter that goes nearly 8 innings and allows 4 runs has put an average team in a position to win the game in each and every one of those starts.

 

Well, I do think that there are specific cases where the first situation could be better than the second (a lot of different factors come into play), but I agree with your overall point. The first case will obviously lead to a much better ERA, which I think can be misleading and misses the bigger picture.

 

This is a similar argument that I've had with people regarding quality starts. I don't think that quality starts are the best way to measure a pitcher's performance, but a starter who goes 6 innings and gives up 3 or fewer runs has done a pretty darn good job IMO. The ERA of 4.5 doesn't look good, but the pitcher has gone fairly deep and has kept his team in the game. I'll take that pretty much any game.

[S5Dewey]

Well, I do think that there are specific cases where the first situation could be better than the second (a lot of different factors come into play), but I agree with your overall point. The first case will obviously lead to a much better ERA, which I think can be misleading and misses the bigger picture.

 

a starter who goes 6 innings and gives up 3 or fewer runs has done a pretty darn good job IMO. The ERA of 4.5 doesn't look good, but the pitcher has gone fairly deep and has kept his team in the game. I'll take that pretty much any game.

 

Which brings us back around to Ryan Dempster in 2013 and his ERA of just north of 4.5 in just under 6 innings per game. I'll take that from my #5 guy every day, twice on Sunday, and three times on a Championship season.

[Kimmi]

Which brings us back around to Ryan Dempster in 2013 and his ERA of just north of 4.5 in just under 6 innings per game. I'll take that from my #5 guy every day, twice on Sunday, and three times on a Championship season.

 

Absolutely. I never understood all the knocks against Dempster, especially when you consider his intangibles along with his performance. Like you said, I'll take that any day.

[S5Dewey]

Absolutely. I never understood all the knocks against Dempster, especially when you consider his intangibles along with his performance. Like you said, I'll take that any day.

 

The knock I've heard is that @ $13m he was overpaid for a #5. I see that as more of a testament to our 1-4's that year when a guy with his numbers can be considered a 5. I mean, sure, we could have signed someone else for half that amount, and maybe come in second.

 

IMHO ARod's first AB against Dempster after the suspension was worth the entire $13M anyway!! That's the stuff legends are made of!!

[southpaw777]

The knock I've heard is that @ $13m he was overpaid for a #5. I see that as more of a testament to our 1-4's that year when a guy with his numbers can be considered a 5. I mean, sure, we could have signed someone else for half that amount, and maybe come in second.

 

IMHO ARod's first AB against Dempster after the suspension was worth the entire $13M anyway!! That's the stuff legends are made of!!

 

I though the Dempster signing was a very smart move in a lot of ways. Some didnt get it, and still dont. He was worth every penny IMHO.