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Thread: Farrell

  1. #1846
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    It sounds like this is a bigger problem than any manager can change. Massive amounts of boneheaded plays suggests that the Sox have some of the stupidest players in the league. If they made it to that level as boneheads and won two division titles what is going to make them change now? That's like expecting Sandoval to change when being fat never prevented him from winning rings and having fun and making big bucks. Players respond to rewards more than discipline.
    A manager can make a difference in these areas. It doesn't have to be by benching (or disciplining) a player who makes a bonehead play or two.

    No, he's not likely to make a difference in Price's spat with the media- maybe, but not likely.

    Seems like HRam got worse with running blunders, so who knows there.

    Beni's blunders could be chalked up to inexperience, but lack of focus could be something a manager could work with the player on.

    Notice I said "might" on everything, so I realize, this is all conjecture.

  2. #1847
    All-Star devildavid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    A manager can make a difference in these areas. It doesn't have to be by benching (or disciplining) a player who makes a bonehead play or two.

    No, he's not likely to make a difference in Price's spat with the media- maybe, but not likely.

    Seems like HRam got worse with running blunders, so who knows there.

    Beni's blunders could be chalked up to inexperience, but lack of focus could be something a manager could work with the player on.

    Notice I said "might" on everything, so I realize, this is all conjecture.
    Massive amounts of boneheaded plays suggests it is more than just a few players. Farrell's base running philosophy makes bad base runners worse. Base running is one area where a new manager could make a significant difference by reigning in the aggression.

  3. #1848
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    But if the talent on the roster is not all that great would these things make a big enough difference in net ( team )performance?
    I think yes.

    I'm not sure about what our current "talent" value is. I realize I may have had expectations that were beyond these players' abilities. This would mean 2015 and 2016 were in some ways flukes or outliers for several players. Possible? Sure. probable? I think not.

    I'm not blaming JF for just about everyone's decline at once. I'm not sure how much of an influence or impact any better manager could demonstrate. I'm not for change for change sake, but I do feel a change at the top is called for. I felt that before this year even started.

  4. #1849
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Farrell should probably go back to being a pitching coach.

    I've defended him a lot in the second half. I think his in-game managing is generally fine. But I do seriously question his skills as a behind-the-scenes manager and motivator. The way the team has failed to show up for this series is really moving the needle to the bad side for me.

  5. #1850
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    I'm not a big Farrell fan by any means but we have just won two division titles in a row. If we get eliminated, of course it will be upsetting but really - whether you like him or not, do you really think that you fire the manager after this? I know that I have have over rated most of the players that we have. I can only speak for myself but it is not that unusual for me to do. With the injuries that we have had and with the way that we have played, I think that is is quite an accomplishment to get where we have gotten. It has been a very entertaining spring summer and fall for me. As much as I think Houston is as good as there is in baseball right now, we aren't done just yet. Winning the World Series is of course the goal every year, but it is so difficult to do that just getting into a playoff position has to be worth something.

  6. #1851
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    Farrell should probably go back to being a pitching coach.

    I've defended him a lot in the second half. I think his in-game managing is generally fine. But I do seriously question his skills as a behind-the-scenes manager and motivator. The way the team has failed to show up for this series is really moving the needle to the bad side for me.
    I think he's a great pitching coach. Too bad he will never accept that demotion on this team.

    I have not had any major issues with in game choices- same as you.

    My main issues are seeing rampant lack of fundamentals and what I called a lack of "fire and desire". Both seemed to improve as the season ended, and I hate to think 2 or 3 games changes much, but as i said, I wanted JF gone before this year even started.

  7. #1852
    Resident Old Fart Spudboy's Avatar
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    Farrell is not being canned.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  8. #1853
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    Quote Originally Posted by cp176 View Post
    I'm not a big Farrell fan by any means but we have just won two division titles in a row. If we get eliminated, of course it will be upsetting but really - whether you like him or not, do you really think that you fire the manager after this? I know that I have have over rated most of the players that we have. I can only speak for myself but it is not that unusual for me to do. With the injuries that we have had and with the way that we have played, I think that is is quite an accomplishment to get where we have gotten. It has been a very entertaining spring summer and fall for me. As much as I think Houston is as good as there is in baseball right now, we aren't done just yet. Winning the World Series is of course the goal every year, but it is so difficult to do that just getting into a playoff position has to be worth something.
    Maybe next year, your will say you under rated most of our players. Most of our players did better in both 2015 and 2016, so I'm not sure thinking their 2017 performance reflects their true or real value going forward.

  9. #1854
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    Farrell is not being canned.
    Agreed. He won't.

    I think the debate is about the "should" or "should not."


  10. #1855
    Resident Old Fart Spudboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Agreed. He won't.

    I think the debate is about the "should" or "should not."

    And my opinion is there is no significant reason to get rid of him.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  11. #1856
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    And my opinion is there is no significant reason to get rid of him.
    My opinion is that there are 4:

    1) We have spent like maniacs and come up short too many times.
    2) Lack of fundamentals and excessive mental blunders.
    3) An apparent (to me) ho-hum attitude.
    4) A significant massive decline by our top 8 returning everyday players and our 2016 Cy Young winner all at once.

    #4 has been used to fire many a manager in the past.

  12. #1857
    Resident Old Fart Spudboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    My opinion is that there are 4:

    1) We have spent like maniacs and come up short too many times.
    2) Lack of fundamentals and excessive mental blunders.
    3) An apparent (to me) ho-hum attitude.
    4) A significant massive decline by our top 8 returning everyday players and our 2016 Cy Young winner all at once.

    #4 has been used to fire many a manager in the past.
    I see #2 as valid but the other ones not things that can be attributed to the manager.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  13. #1858
    Deity Bellhorn04's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    Farrell is not being canned.
    If the Sox get swept out I think it's a real possibility. Francona was shown the door after a 90 win season and 2 titles in 8 years.

    We do have kind of a small window with this group, and we don't really have the resources to make big personnel changes before next year. Changing the manager is one of the few significant moves they can make.

  14. #1859
    Deity moonslav59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    I see #2 as valid but the other ones not things that can be attributed to the manager.
    Not even to a small extent on 1,3 & 4?

  15. #1860
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    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Not even to a small extent on 1,3 & 4?
    I agree with Spud. I can only fault him for poor fundamental teams. I think you are wrong about a ho him attitude. The fact that these guys had such an extraordinary record in extra inning games demonstrates their will and their fight. It is not randomness -- another sta head whacky theory. On the telecasts, the former ball players have noted that as the extra inning games drone on that often times the players just want the game to end without care who wins. That is not the case with this crew. They never gave up in those games and in many of those games they broke the will of the other teams. I don't see any bad or ho hum attitude from these fellas.

    The big reason that we will see Farrell in our dugout next year is that owners just don't fire managers the same year that the team has won a division crown. He has won two division crowns in a row. I can't remember the last time that a manager got fired after winning 2 Division titles in a row.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

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