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Thread: Farrell

  1. #1816
    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    And you refuse to define in any way what I am supposedly invalidating. What does it mean to believe in clutch? What is the meaning of clutch? Is clutch dependent on results? Does clutch produce observable actions? How do you feel clutch? What tells you when you are looking at a clutch player?
    You are not getting it are you? I don't give a shit what you think or believe. If it makes you feel better, you can declare victory, and I will not dispute it other than to say that you haven't proved or disproved anything.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  2. #1817
    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    It is patently obvious what you are doing.
    Mastering the discussion.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  3. #1818
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Mastering the discussion.
    That's one interpretation; there are others that are just as viable.
    The Yankees could go 0-162 and it wouldn't be enough

  4. #1819
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    You are not getting it are you? I don't give a shit what you think or believe. If it makes you feel better, you can declare victory, and I will not dispute it other than to say that you haven't proved or disproved anything.
    I'm not asking you to give a shit. I'm asking you to tell me what clutch is, in your view. You have so far failed to do that. I'm not trying to prove anything, I'm trying to get you to define what we are debating, but you refuse to do that. Is clutch dependent on actual results, or is it merely something you believe that you see in someone?

  5. #1820
    You two both have to pack it in on this, really. This has been going on for page after page and it's still going nowhere.

  6. #1821
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellhorn04 View Post
    You two both have to pack it in on this, really. This has been going on for page after page and it's still going nowhere.
    I have. It is pretty clear that I told him that it was done. He wants me to make his case for him. I have no interest in that.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  7. #1822
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    I have. It is pretty clear that I told him that it was done. He wants me to make his case for him. I have no interest in that.
    No, I want you to tell me how you know someone is clutch and you have failed to do it. I am not arguing a case. I am debating a concept.

  8. #1823
    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    No, I want you to tell me how you know someone is clutch and you have failed to do it. I am not arguing a case. I am debating a concept.
    I am not interested in debating this with you as I have no interest in trying to convince you of anything. On the other hand, if you want to present a compelling case of why clutch doesn't exist using definitive measures, I can't stop you and I will read it and consider it. Otherwise, just stop.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  9. #1824
    Time to give Farrell the pink slip!

  10. #1825
    Quote Originally Posted by devildavid View Post
    People can believe anything they want. There is nothing to stop them. That does not mean all beliefs mean anything except to the individual. I didn't realize that clutch was merely a belief. I thought it was dependent on actual results in game situations. If it is only a belief then I can believe I am a clutch MLB hitter without even having to prove it on the field. We aren't discussing religion, are we?
    Of course what constitutes clutch players and clutch situations is a belief. I'm sure that both exist and hope that no one ever can come up with a definitive way to prove the existence of either. As I have said many times sort of this is why I believe people who have real experience in athletics know more about what it really means than those who don't. You don't believe that - that is fine. Your attempts to intellectually stun me really are accomplishing much. I'm the guy who just coughed up a bunch of $ because the tooth fairy just made a visit.

  11. #1826
    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    DD, he's lawyering you. He's going to keep peppering you with questions and he will NEVER answer a question you ask him.
    What's the matter boys? Didn't your Mother breast feed you?
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  12. #1827
    Quote Originally Posted by illinoisredsox View Post
    DD, he's lawyering you. He's going to keep peppering you with questions and he will NEVER answer a question you ask him.
    Interesting. I saw that as completely the opposite, that DD is trying to perpetuate the "debate" by being obtuse and evasive. Two of the people (three including me) in this "debate" had already said that they don't care what DD thinks and yet he continues to try to perpetuate the debate.

    Perception is everything, I guess.
    Any owners who sign previously suspended PED abusers to a big $$ contract are as guilty of perpetuating the PED problem as are the players.

  13. #1828
    Quote Originally Posted by S5Dewey View Post
    Interesting. I saw that as completely the opposite, that DD is trying to perpetuate the "debate" by being obtuse and evasive. Two of the people (three including me) in this "debate" had already said that they don't care what DD thinks and yet he continues to try to perpetuate the debate.

    Perception is everything, I guess.
    I don't think I could have said it any more clearly. Plus, he said it at least on one occasion that there was nothing anyone could say that could change his mind. That doesn't seem like a good faith offer to debate, so why bother. Let him make his case all that he wants, but I have no interest in trying to convince him, especially when he has prejudged the issue.
    The King of TalkSox has Spoken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dojji View Post
    [T]he conclusion to be drawn is that there is no practical value in seeking this ideal lineup, and in that case any way in which it might be meaningfully termed "best" is irrelevant, academic at best, pedantic at worst
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    Unlike hot streaks and clutch, the “Cliff” is a myth. It can’t be defined, and it’s future existence cannot be proved.

  14. #1829
    Quote Originally Posted by cp176 View Post
    No offense for sure but I would hate to live in a world where nothing could be believed in unless there had to be some sort of statistical proof to support it. A real believer in anything I'm pretty much sure doesn't feel a need to justify their feelings. There isn't always a right or wrong answer to every question.

    That's not how belief works. It is how proof works. But there is a grey area between the two which some might call "faith"...

  15. #1830
    Quote Originally Posted by a700hitter View Post
    I don't think I could have said it any more clearly. Plus, he said it at least on one occasion that there was nothing anyone could say that could change his mind. That doesn't seem like a good faith offer to debate, so why bother. Let him make his case all that he wants, but I have no interest in trying to convince him, especially when he has prejudged the issue.
    Debating rarely changes anyone's mind. Most people are too close-minded and see the opposite side not as an opportunity for education, but as a conflicting thought that needs to be countered. And the belief in "proof" has turned into a selection of what "facts" fit your original side. This has become more and more evident with politics these days.

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