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Thread: 2017-18 International Signing Period

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    I already voiced my opinion on foreign players with Otani.

    I'll say it here too, so all races are included since moonslav insinuated I am racist. Why bother in investing in all of these untested, unchallenged players from countries other than the DR? If they wanted to play with the big boys, they would have found a way to get to the US and compete collegiately. It almost seems like they go for the easy route, putting up huge numbers against AA competition and remaining where they are until they are 27/28 years old, then getting a huge payday.

    Want proof of the inferior competition? Just take a look at these MLB flameouts:
    Orestes Destrade
    Randy Bass
    Julio Zuleta
    Tuffy Rhodes
    Alex Cabrera
    Wladimir Balentien

    All of them were HUGE home run hitting stars in professional baseball outside of the MLB. Why? Because they were playing against A/AA quality players, thats why.
    Well part of it is that everyone is conditioned to get their panties all wet with the shinny new toy from another country. That and lack of a draft for such players, I guess.

    I have many misgivings about Cuban players.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  2. #17
    Many prospects who beat up on A/AA and even AAA pitchers flame out in MLB. My guess is that there is a similar, if not a lesser flame out rate for foreign players who played several years in other countries.

    You rarely get a chance to sign some other team's minor league players putting up big numbers. It's much easier to gauge value of players in the minors vs college. I'm thinking it's easier to scout foreign players than HS or college players, because the competition is a little more known and consistent. The opponents HS and college players face are wildly sporadic and un-measurable.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    Well part of it is that everyone is conditioned to get their panties all wet with the shinny new toy from another country. That and lack of a draft for such players, I guess.

    I have many misgivings about Cuban players.
    Yes, the lack of a draft is a huge aspect.

    It is reasonable to have misgivings about any signing or draftee.

  4. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    Many prospects who beat up on A/AA and even AAA pitchers flame out in MLB. My guess is that there is a similar, if not a lesser flame out rate for foreign players who played several years in other countries.

    You rarely get a chance to sign some other team's minor league players putting up big numbers. It's much easier to gauge value of players in the minors vs college. I'm thinking it's easier to scout foreign players than HS or college players, because the competition is a little more known and consistent. The opponents HS and college players face are wildly sporadic and un-measurable.
    This makes no sense. When the player is 25+ years old, he is no longer considered a MLB prospect. Its not easier to scout foreign players, thats why so few of them actually produce. Much easier to scout a collegiate player, since that's what they have always done. Foreign amateur competition is impossible to scout, since its no where near the competition in the collegiate levels.

    You still didn't quote correctly and everything is bold, not sure if you said it, or someone else did.
    Theo Epstein Fan. John Lester Fan. RedSox fan, Cubs supporter.

    Fire John Farrell.

  5. #20
    I'm hoping we can score with some international free agents,

    Without them and the players we got by trading some of them, it's hard to imagine where we'd be right now without them.

    Many were not from the D. R. Many were.

    Devers (DR)
    Bogey (Aruba)
    Moncada (Cuba) centerpiece of Sale Trade
    Espinoza (Venezuela) got us Pomeranz
    Margot (DR) centerpiece for Kimbrel trade
    Basabe brothers (Venezuela) traded away
    Hector Velazquez (Mexico)
    Lin (Taiwan)
    Castillo (Cuba)

    Current IFA prospects:
    Mata (Venezuela)
    D Diaz (Venezuela)
    D Hernandez (Venezuela)


  6. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    I already voiced my opinion on foreign players with Otani.

    I'll say it here too, so all races are included since moonslav insinuated I am racist. Why bother in investing in all of these untested, unchallenged players from countries other than the DR? If they wanted to play with the big boys, they would have found a way to get to the US and compete collegiately. It almost seems like they go for the easy route, putting up huge numbers against AA competition and remaining where they are until they are 27/28 years old, then getting a huge payday.

    Want proof of the inferior competition? Just take a look at these MLB flameouts:
    Orestes Destrade
    Randy Bass
    Julio Zuleta
    Tuffy Rhodes
    Alex Cabrera
    Wladimir Balentien

    All of them were HUGE home run hitting stars in professional baseball outside of the MLB. Why? Because they were playing against A/AA quality players, thats why.
    This post really has nothing to do with the rest of the thread up to that point...

    Quote Originally Posted by moonslav59 View Post
    I'm hoping we can score with some international free agents,

    Without them and the players we got by trading some of them, it's hard to imagine where we'd be right now without them.

    Many were not from the D. R. Many were.

    Devers (DR)
    Bogey (Aruba)
    Moncada (Cuba) centerpiece of Sale Trade
    Espinoza (Venezuela) got us Pomeranz
    Margot (DR) centerpiece for Kimbrel trade
    Basabe brothers (Venezuela) traded away
    Hector Velazquez (Mexico)
    Lin (Taiwan)
    Castillo (Cuba)

    Current IFA prospects:
    Mata (Venezuela)
    D Diaz (Venezuela)
    D Hernandez (Venezuela)

    Agreed...the international market is simply another avenue of finding talent, and one that any club would be foolish not to take advantage of to the best of their abilities and resources. Naturally some misses are going to come with the territory - no different from the domestic draft, where you can drop a big bonus on a Mark Appel (or a Trey Ball) and watch them flame out, and where it's understood that only a small percentage are ever going to amount to anything significant.
    Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

  7. #22
    One could argue the IFA market has been our best area of team building over the last 4-6 years.

    We've bombed on most big FA signings.

    Our drafts have not been all that great since 2011 with 2014 looking better than it did a while back.

  8. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flap View Post
    This post really has nothing to do with the rest of the thread up to that point...
    Oh, I see you AND moonslav came from http://bostonredsoxforum.freeforums.net/ HAHAHAHAHAAH Nowwwwwwww I get it.......
    Theo Epstein Fan. John Lester Fan. RedSox fan, Cubs supporter.

    Fire John Farrell.

  9. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    Oh, I see you AND moonslav came from http://bostonredsoxforum.freeforums.net/ HAHAHAHAHAAH Nowwwwwwww I get it.......
    Lol. You got it.
    "Hating the Yankees like it's a religion since 94'" RIP Mike.


    "It's also a simple and indisputable fact that WAR isn't the be-all end-all in valuations, especially in real life. Wanna know why? Because an ace in run-prevention for 120 innings means more often than not, a sub-standard pitcher covering for the rest of the IP that pitcher fails to provide. You can't see value in a vacuum when a player does not provide full-time production."

  10. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    Oh, I see you AND moonslav came from http://bostonredsoxforum.freeforums.net/ HAHAHAHAHAAH Nowwwwwwww I get it.......
    I don't "come from" there....registered at one time, posted sparingly for a bit, didn't care for it much, left and haven't been back in probably a year or more. Your point...?

  11. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    Lol. You got it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flap View Post
    I don't "come from" there....registered at one time, posted sparingly for a bit, didn't care for it much, left and haven't been back in probably a year or more. Your point...?
    Yup, these guys will get to know me REALLL well. Bullshit is not exactly something I tolerate.

    The point, is those places suck, and so do you. GTFO
    Theo Epstein Fan. John Lester Fan. RedSox fan, Cubs supporter.

    Fire John Farrell.

  12. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flap View Post
    I don't "come from" there....registered at one time, posted sparingly for a bit, didn't care for it much, left and haven't been back in probably a year or more. Your point...?
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    Yup, these guys will get to know me REALLL well. Bullshit is not exactly something I tolerate.

    The point, is those places suck, and so do you. GTFO
    That's what I thought.

    Listen, dude, I don't know you...been posting here almost 2 years now and have never had a hint of a personal issue with anyone until you traipsed in with whatever this internet tough guy bullshit is. If you have an issue with something I've posted and want to discuss it, then I'm around...but if substance-free insult attempts like the post I'm replying to are your thing, then knock yourself out, but I'll not be playing that game. Good night to you.

  13. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Flap View Post
    That's what I thought.

    Listen, dude, I don't know you...been posting here almost 2 years now and have never had a hint of a personal issue with anyone until you traipsed in with whatever this internet tough guy bullshit is. If you have an issue with something I've posted and want to discuss it, then I'm around...but if substance-free insult attempts like the post I'm replying to are your thing, then knock yourself out, but I'll not be playing that game. Good night to you.
    Internet tough guy does not describe me, and bullshit certainly doesn't.

    Don't think that you and your boy moonslav are going to tag team me without me being able to figure out what is going on. You have no idea what I do or know, just by querying your username

    If that was an attempt at an apology, then it is accepted. Still waiting on moonslav's.
    Theo Epstein Fan. John Lester Fan. RedSox fan, Cubs supporter.

    Fire John Farrell.

  14. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by SCM33 View Post
    Internet tough guy does not describe me, and bullshit certainly doesn't.

    Don't think that you and your boy moonslav are going to tag team me without me being able to figure out what is going on. You have no idea what I do or know, just by querying your username

    If that was an attempt at an apology, then it is accepted. Still waiting on moonslav's.
    I don't know where you see an apology in there, but whatever you need to tell yourself to get by.

    Detente, though? That I'm always down for.

    Not tag-teaming anyone, I assure you...I'm something of a lone wolf myself.

    And feel free to query away, if you want to go down that rabbit hole.

  15. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudboy View Post
    Lol. You got it.
    Et tu, Spud?

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