I hear Asdrubal Cabrera might be available if thats the caseOriginally Posted by a700hitter
I hear Asdrubal Cabrera might be available if thats the case
"horrible" is a relative statement. 2016 Shaw would have been light years ahead of anyone we have at the position now.
If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.
As I've said, I'm not lobbying for Lin to be our SS. I just think that we're hamstringing ourselves when we decide to eliminate a possibility that might make the team better in the name of keeping one player comfortable. Players change positions. Benintendi was a CF'er. Mookie was a 2B-man.
My problem is with any player who 'pulls a Derek Jeter' and essentially refuses to move off his position even though it could make the team better. - and gets away with it! Tail wagging dog.
It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All-Star game and the Old Timer's game.
-Vin Scully
I never said Bogey is "not working" at SS. I was just talking about his defense not improving at all over his ML career. You'd think his dislike for playing 3B and his hard work ethic would have meant we'd see some growth on defense. One could argue there has even been slight regression on defense.
Bogey's offense makes him a clear and significant plus at SS. His defense is not bad, and even though I have a very strong philosophy of having great defense at the SS position, I am not for moving Bogey to 3B for someone like Marrero or LIn. To me, his defense is "acceptable", but barely so.I'm not calling for DD to try and trade for a SS, so Bogey can be moved to 3B. Not at all. I see Devers as our future 3Bman and Bogey staying at SS for a long time, but if we ever do get a great fielding SS that can hit, I'd consider the move. (Note: I used the word "consider" not certainly would move him, too.)
He lost the starting job at the end of last year due to an almost unbelievably long slump. That wasn't a problem?
There are plenty of acceptable options at 3B without getting exotic.
We don't need an all star and don't really have the assets to obtain one. What we need is adequacy at the third base position. An all star would be great but all we need 3B to be is something other than a sucking chest wound.
Going back to an offseason idea of Moonslav's, picking up Todd Frazier from a White Sox club going nowhere would be a solid idea, I doubt he'd be too expensive considering he's on the last year of his deal on a losing team and the White Sox are considering a transition to Yoan Moncada at his position, and we've proven we can make fair deals with the White Sox. That looks like a deal that ought to be doable for a reasonable price in assets. Heck maybe the White Sox think they can save Blake Swihart.
Adrian Beltre is also a solid choice if the Rangers will spare him, he's made a strong return to their lineup after his injury and I think it's fair to say he's likely healthy, and he's been highly productive in Boston before. The Rangers are 1 game over .500 and not too far off wild card pace and they may consider themselves in contention, so that may not be an option at the deadline, but if they take a dive in the standings between now and 7/31 that becomes an option.
Basically there's a couple things we can potentially do to increase our left side of the infield offense without screwing over an elite SS. If they fail then maybe it's time to go exocit, but the best roster moves are the ones that are least disruptive to the team, adding the most while subtracting the least, and if a veteran 3B is available, getting a SS instead fails that test.
Last edited by Dojji; 06-26-2017 at 09:09 AM.
If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.
You're ignoring the problem of maintenance. Staying at an acceptable level defensively takes a certain work ethic when you're not naturally built for the position.
That's fair.Bogey's offense makes him a clear and significant plus at SS. His defense is not bad, and even though I have a very strong philosophy of having great defense at the SS position, I am not for moving Bogey to 3B for someone like Marrero or LIn. To me, his defense is "acceptable", but barely so.I'm not calling for DD to try and trade for a SS, so Bogey can be moved to 3B. Not at all. I see Devers as our future 3Bman and Bogey staying at SS for a long time, but if we ever do get a great fielding SS that can hit, I'd consider the move. (Note: I used the word "consider" not certainly would move him, too.)
If history tells us anything, the path to redeption for any bad baseball team is marked with a deep rotation of durable starters, a world class defense in both infield and outfield, a lineup that can generate runs in more than one way, a bullpen that won't steal defeat from the jaws of victory, and a top end catcher to hold the whole package together. These are the conditions by which victory is achieved, anything that does not accomplish these objectives is a waste of resources.
The point was that he was horrible for most of the season. The word "most" might be debatable, but in my opinion, the word "horrible" was an accurate description of Shaw's play at the end of the season last year.
His defense was surprisingly decent last year at 3B, but I'm not sure one could expect that to continue. By the way, his UZR/150 this year is at -9.3 (third worst in MLB). He really is much better at 1B.
Here are his numbers:
2nd half: 59 games/193 PAs
.194 7 23 (.619 OPS)
Our 2017 3B numbers right now: 75 gams/286 PAs
.198 7 29 (.568 OPS)
Yes, Shaw looked slightly better over this year's clown carousel, but not by much.
(Note: 59 games is not "most of the season".)
Now, if you tighten up the sample size to just August and September, Shaw was no better than this year's 3Bmen:
AUG: .542 OPS
SEP: .602 OPS
That was 150 PAs of .570 batting (.184 4 16).
It's hard not to call that HORRIBLE!
Last edited by moonslav59; 06-26-2017 at 10:00 AM.
You're ignoring the problem of maintenance. Staying at an acceptable level defensively takes a certain work ethic when you're not naturally built for the position.
I think the scouts and I were wrong about Bogey not "being built to play SS." He has not "filled out". His current body type should not be a factor in improving his defense at SS.
There are plenty of acceptable options at 3B without getting exotic.
We don't need an all star and don't really have the assets to obtain one. What we need is adequacy at the third base position. An all star would be great but all we need 3B to be is something other than a sucking chest wound.
Going back to an offseason idea of Moonslav's, picking up Todd Frazier from a White Sox club going nowhere would be a solid idea, I doubt he'd be too expensive considering he's on the last year of his deal on a losing team and the White Sox are considering a transition to Yoan Moncada at his position, and we've proven we can make fair deals with the White Sox. That looks like a deal that ought to be doable for a reasonable price in assets. Heck maybe the White Sox think they can save Blake Swihart.
I'm not longer a supporter of trading for Frazier. He's having a bad year, and he's historically a much worse second half hitter. His defense is still solid. He's probably better than what we have, assuming Devers is targeted for 2018, so if we could get him for cheap, which is doubtful, I might consider him.
Adrian Beltre is also a solid choice if the Rangers will spare him, he's made a strong return to their lineup after his injury and I think it's fair to say he's likely healthy, and he's been highly productive in Boston before. The Rangers are 1 game over .500 and not too far off wild card pace and they may consider themselves in contention, so that may not be an option at the deadline, but if they take a dive in the standings between now and 7/31 that becomes an option.
Will be way too costly.
Basically there's a couple things we can potentially do to increase our left side of the infield offense without screwing over an elite SS. If they fail then maybe it's time to go exocit, but the best roster moves are the ones that are least disruptive to the team, adding the most while subtracting the least, and if a veteran 3B is available, getting a SS instead fails that test.
I'm not advoacting moving Bogey to 3B, like I was when we had Iggy, but a chance at greatly improving SS defense is nothing to ignore either.
..and since I didn't bring that guy's name up....
I see no doubt that this team would be better than it is with Bogy and Iggy on the left side, regardless of which position they're at. And cheaper, too.
It's a mere moment in a man's life between the All-Star game and the Old Timer's game.
-Vin Scully
And if the Sox really want to move Xander to 3B, it will be done during an offseason, not in June/July.
I totally agree. It's not happening this year. It's extremely unlike over this winter as well.
Iggy is a great defender..and since I didn't bring that guy's name up....
I see no doubt that this team would be better than it is with Bogy and Iggy on the left side, regardless of which position they're at. And cheaper, too.
Definitely better hitter than Devers
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.asp...rs=0&sort=21,d
Iggy's bat is so bad that it's laughable that anyone would want him back. He's no Ozzie Smith.
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